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[Discussion] Power Levels (Part 4)


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#181 Abaroxa

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Posted 31 August 2018 - 12:36 PM

That is the worst analysis is have ever read in my entire life. the only possible thing that could of happened here is either you dont read OP or you are currently drunk, I will assume it is the latter,in that case, go home, and in the morning laugh at that nonsense above you wrote lol.

1st off, ignroing the fact that the great war spear is over 1 ton in weight and don kreig weilds it well enough to hit luffy with it..... look at this
https://file-image.m....jpg?1513967960
that is the iron ball don krieg used to try and sink the fins before the fire spread to the rest of the ship. The Don swung that iron spike ball, which has to weigh in excess of 10 tons, above his head and threw it at the fin.

also, if those shoulder plates are one ton, how much to you think his entire armor weighs. Don kreig is likely stronger then even luffy was in the east blue.

keep in mind, don kreig fought luffy in hand to hand combat..........don kreig BEAT luffy in hand to hand combat. Don kreig wasn't even defeated by luffy, the Don threw luffy into the ocean, and shortly after he was back on his feet. Luffy would have died had no one been there to save him, and the Don would of gotten up in a few seconds.....

so you want to compare don krieg, a man who beat luffy in hand to hand combat, to usopp? let me list the people who were unable to beat luffy in hand to hand combat. Crocodile and Enel.........but there is don krieg, able to go blow for blow with luffy and win. yet you think he is in anyway similar to usopp?

Harsh.. lool my analysis is like all my others. It was weird.
1. I did not mentioned don krieg strength. All I said was that just because you rely on armours and gadjets you shouldn't neglect strength and speed. Don krieg further proves that point by showing that his armour and weapons cannot be used without his massive strength.
2. Even though krieg had all that armour, every single attack luffy landed on him was a near death experience. What's the point on having all that strength if even with armour you are slow and have low endurance. No one wants to see another one shot like cracker.

As for his similarities with ussop. Both rely on add ons. You take that from them and they are probably useless.



It is safe to say he is the OG franky, but he is no where near usopp......aside from the fact they both have ugly noses

OG franky?. I suppose so. Both rely on add ons and have immense strength.

Is that why Kaku, Kalifa and Sabo immediately used their DFs at least competently right after they acquired it?

and Alvida. You forgot alvida.
they have to be the exception of the norm. Luffy was pretty useless for a great portion of his life.
It was either because they are experienced fighters and are quick at manipulating their tactics to implement their new powers or
what we saw them do was 50 percent or less of they are capable of doing.

#182 captain kidd

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Posted 31 August 2018 - 09:01 PM

Harsh.. lool my analysis is like all my others. It was weird.
1. I did not mentioned don krieg strength. All I said was that just because you rely on armours and gadjets you shouldn't neglect strength and speed. Don krieg further proves that point by showing that his armour and weapons cannot be used without his massive strength.
2. Even though krieg had all that armour, every single attack luffy landed on him was a near death experience. What's the point on having all that strength if even with armour you are slow and have low endurance. No one wants to see another one shot like cracker.

As for his similarities with ussop. Both rely on add ons. You take that from them and they are probably useless.



OG franky?. I suppose so. Both rely on add ons and have immense strength.

and Alvida. You forgot alvida.
they have to be the exception of the norm. Luffy was pretty useless for a great portion of his life.
It was either because they are experienced fighters and are quick at manipulating their tactics to implement their new powers or
what we saw them do was 50 percent or less of they are capable of doing.

 

 

lol maybe that was harsh but comparing anyone to usopp is fighting words....

 

1. add ons, seems like you are using that as a bad thing, nearly everyone in OP fights with some type of "add ons" either Luffy's df or zoro's swords or sanjis......maybe he could use a few add ons.....

 

2. you think? don krieg was hit twice in the face, once in the chest shattering the armor, after that point he captured luffy in a net, threw him in the water, luffy gave him a crazy hit to the head, but don krieg got back up from that, only for gin to knock him down. you would figure if he was as weak as you say then luffy would of been the one to defeat him, not gin.

 

well if you take zoro's swords from him he is alot less useful as well, I wouldn't say don krieg is useless the man is still strong enough to throw a 10 ton steel ball with ease, he will figure something out.

 

I kinda see what you are saying, but the similarities start and end with "they both have a lot of weapons" Usopp is a long distance fighter that uses only his sling shot and sometimes a hammer and impact dial, Don krieg is a close to mid range fighter that uses his superior strength to dominate hand to hand combat and control the battle field. I guess we can safely say that both of them are smart and tactical thinkers, usopp created a smart way to fight luffy where don krieg also had a very good plan of keeping luffy at bay and using the water to his advantage. Don krieg on the other hand is very charismatic and calm where usopp is neither of those things. Then finally the Don uses very cheep tactics like poison gas bombs, where usopp.......usopp doesn't even use a gun......loser....

 

 

Franky on the other hand is the most dirty SH fighter there is, remember him asking nero "what is that over there" then attacking his back? Franky also has super human strength, mayby not as much as don krieg but still a lot. Franky also has steel armor, however his is internal, except where don Krieg's weakness was his face, Franky's is his back. Franky's super weapon (pre TS) was a wind cannon, Don Krieg's was a poison gas cannon. then of course the Don has a bunch of internal weapons like his 10 guns under his armor and his flame thrower, both of which franky has as well.


 
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#183 Tale

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 02:45 AM


And Fishman Karate has a clear number-based technique naming.

 

I know it does, and though it sounds like it could be used as a metric for comparing their attacks, you'd still need the same assumption that operates when someone takes calcs for granted, which is that Oda is depicting an attack that is actually times stronger than another attack and the depiction is scientifically accurate.

 

Aside from that, there are several problems with the implication you're trying to draw here.

  • We don't actually know the upper-limit of Jimbei's tile-breaking. Even if we assume the scale is representative, Jimbei could still have a 70,000 Tile kick or something. The range could be large, as demonstrated by Kurobi himself, who used both 100 and 1000 tile attacks.
  • There are other metrics which are (from what I see) ridiculously inconsistent. Zoro's pound cannons, Hody's pill power-ups, Eneru's Volts.

I'm not saying I don't see your position. There are interesting points one could raise in favour of it (such as about Douriki - I think Spandam said 500+ douriki made one superhuman, which makes that scale interesting), but given the inconsistencies, it's hard to put up a clear case for it. I'm sorry I'm not discussing this properly but I'm feeling lazy...



#184 Fulmine

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 05:40 AM


I know it does, and though it sounds like it could be used as a metric for comparing their attacks, you'd still need the same assumption that operates when someone takes calcs for granted, which is that Oda is depicting an attack that is actually x times stronger than another attack and the depiction is scientifically accurate.

No, you don't need the same assumption. For 2 reasons:

 

1. Techniques' names are canon. Calcs are fanmade :psyduck: (I don't think they are all useless but yeah).

 

That's the first glaring sign you should not compare them. At all. The only assumption I have to make to trust what the author said is that he was in his right mind when he wrote the dialogue/info boxes. It's a ''we take it as is until proven otherwise, unless it already contradicts previous information which means we have to wait for further details anw'' kind of deal. Though whether it contradicts anything is also debatable. Several people would say it does because they think the power creep is real for reasons I stated but that's circular reasoning and that's precisely why I wrote what I wrote to show them what they think is illogical and lazy shounen trope-dependence. After they get rid of them and somehow still think the power creep is real with new/better reasoning then we can discuss.

 

Hell, people on Internet disagree about calcs all the time. It's not even like they universally agree and the calc is confirmed with certification or something. You can't disagree that Jinbe used 7000-tile roundhouse kick. It's a fact until Oda changes his mind.

 

 

2. Techniques' names are so much easier to manage.

The assumption you mentioned means 2 things:

-to draw every panel's art consistent in ratio and perspective so that calculation can be reliably done, which is actually goddamn difficult for mangaka, which we all know Oda doesn't do, infamously so (just look at DD vs Jozu vs WB vs Luffy in terms of height as na example). That's why several calcs have high-end and low-end results (though it can also be because they use different calculating methods) and they can vary widely.

-And yeah, that Oda knows about the science and that science is the same one the Internet fandom calculators use.

 

But for techniques? There's no need to assume anything about ''complicated'' scientific nature of it. Oda names this technique 1000-tile and the other 5000-tile. One is 5 times stronger. Simple math as that.

 

 

Oda may not be able to do the former, but it sure as hell easy for him to do the latter. Well, he should also need to be careful about the effect of the technique on characters/environment (would be weird the same punch one-shot Zolo but not Hachi when there are no circumstantial factors or that Hachi gets much stronger). And Oda can be inconsistent in that. But so far I don't recall anything that extreme (and with CoA a lot of things can be explained). Again, the only thing needed is he was in his right mind when writing which we kinda have to assume anw if nothing forces us not to..

 

 

 

 


We don't actually know the upper-limit of Jimbei's tile-breaking. Even if we assume the scale is representative, Jimbei could still have a 70,000 Tile kick or something. The range could be large, as demonstrated by Kurobi himself, who used both 100 and 1000 tile attacks.

I already answered that


Post-TS Jinbe used a 7000-tile kick. Hack used 4000-tile punch. Of course, it's not like that's their limit but the point is they deemed that level is still relevant (and CoA, or lack of it, probably make up for the rest). Hell Jinbe's round-house is still more impressive that most stuffs Sanji dissed out post-TS.

 

And I don't think Kurobi's using 100-tile and 1000-tile helps your point :mellow:. Obviously if you have enough strength to punch 1000 tiles you can do so to 100 tiles...assuming still the same type of tiles and not Orihalcon or sea stone tiles. Besides Kurobi is a level-40 FK martial artist and Hack is level-100. I'd say the differences in both FK techniques and level are close enough for us to theorize the physical game isn't inflated that much.

 

 

 

 


There are other metrics which are (from what I see) ridiculously inconsistent. Zoro's pound cannons, Hody's pill power-ups, Eneru's Volts.

How are they inconsistent? At least not yet

 

Hody: we don't know how strong he is at base and nothing says he actually made full use of the pills. As in yes, he consumed that many pills and the side-effect got him but who said all of them contribute to his doping state? Dumb analogy but if I ate more than my stomach can handle then before I get to digest and absorb the nutrition I'd die because my stomach explodes. Hody didn't explode but you get my point.

 

Zolo:

+his swordsmanship isn't a martial art with actual rank system so not the same as FK

+Buddhism theme

+CoA.

 

Enel-sama: which instance are you referring to? His lightning attacks are all consistent to me (unless vs Luffy LOL). Everyone is burnt terribly the same...the only reason they don't die is...well, this is One Piece. Oda himself said he wouldn't just kill off people so that they can return (unless it's plot-important like WB and Ace).

 

Ergo, making pieces of super charred BBQ meat is the best feat ever you can give a lightningman like Enel-sama in this manga because the next better would be death. Also the reason Wiper could stand up is the same willpower stuff in this manga like Luffy just outright forgot Crocodile poisoned him...Wiper had huge stake, like his ancestor's honor and pride. If Enel was roasting Kuina there Zolo would have replaced Wiper. That doesn't change the fact they are fodders to God. People who said just because Enel didn't disintegrate or vaporize or one-shot pre-TS characters means he would not do shit to guys like Vergo is crazy readers who don't pay attention to the manga.

 

 

 

 


such as about Douriki - I think Spandam said 500+ douriki made one superhuman, which makes that scale interesting

Well, I'd say 100+ is enough. I can imagine Bruce Lee beating 10 trained, armed soldiers. But 50 is a bit...and Bruce Lee is what we normally call Peak Human. Depends on Oda though. Usopp is the most human who gave up lifting anything past 5kg yet still had superhuman feat like taking Mr.4's bat which broke his nose.

 

Also if the base stats had changed so much, Kuro's speed shouldn't be compared to Soru at all yet Oda did exactly that in SBS and said they are roughly the same. Which explains why Luffy could easily follow Blueno's movement on EL. In Water Seven he was just surprised. Once he realized what the technique was and focused, Blueno's speed is nothing because he had dealt with Kuro before.


Edited by Fulmine, 03 September 2018 - 05:43 AM.

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#185 Kid Frost

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 07:14 AM

Thanks to that and Nami figuring out water is his weakness, the fight turned direction into a gag fight that continued for 11 hours. Luffy said it himself: it is biscuit, he wouldn't pass it. Canon>fanfic.


I've seen you make this argument before but I'm not sure what exactly you mean when you say this. Are you implying that Luffy could've beaten Cracker in Gear 4 but left that form purposely just so he could eat and kept it up for 11 hours out of pure gluttony. Because if that's the case then I think his own dialogue proves otherwise..."I guess I've got no choice but to eat them again, since they'll just regenerate if I try to break them." "But honestly I don't think I can take down another bite. Maybe I can figure out a way to get rid of them without having to stuff my face."
These statements taken in tandem with some of his other dialogue seems to indicate that he wasn't eating because he was hungry / greedy and wanted free biscuits but because he didn't have another way he could win otherwise. In fact he complains about having to eat more and more as the fight went on so I don't think your interpretation is accurate or even plausible. Unless of course I've misunderstood your position entirely. :shrug:
 


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#186 Fulmine

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 12:49 PM

I've seen you make this argument before but I'm not sure what exactly you mean when you say this. Are you implying that Luffy could've beaten Cracker in Gear 4 but left that form purposely just so he could eat and kept it up for 11 hours out of pure gluttony. Because if that's the case then I think his own dialogue proves otherwise..."I guess I've got no choice but to eat them again, since they'll just regenerate if I try to break them." "But honestly I don't think I can take down another bite. Maybe I can figure out a way to get rid of them without having to stuff my face."
These statements taken in tandem with some of his other dialogue seems to indicate that he wasn't eating because he was hungry / greedy and wanted free biscuits but because he didn't have another way he could win otherwise. In fact he complains about having to eat more and more as the fight went on so I don't think your interpretation is accurate or even plausible. Unless of course I've misunderstood your position entirely. :shrug:
 

Nah, want of food played a small part but the main reason is of course eating became enough as a mean of combat, or so he would have thought at the time. As time went on it proved to be not but Luffy was already in the trench.

 

What Luffy said in my argument is also his own words...As for the dialogue you mentioned, I'm well aware of it and it only means he was helpless in that state.


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#187 waleuska

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 01:21 PM


Ergo, making pieces of super charred BBQ meat is the best feat ever you can give a lightningman like Enel-sama in this manga because the next better would be death. Also the reason Wiper could stand up is the same willpower stuff in this manga like Luffy just outright forgot Crocodile poisoned him...Wiper had huge stake, like his ancestor's honor and pride. If Enel was roasting Kuina there Zolo would have replaced Wiper. That doesn't change the fact they are fodders to God. People who said just because Enel didn't disintegrate or vaporize or one-shot pre-TS characters means he would not do shit to guys like Vergo is crazy readers who don't pay attention to the manga.

 

Yes, it does. No way does Enel have a chance against Vergo. Vergo trains to beat DF users of all types. That is why he was a bigger threat than CC who have a logia DF. The only reason Enel was broken because of CoO and his fruit. Take those away and he was weaker than sanji in that arc. How do i know Enel is super weak look at him when he could guess luffy moves. Everyone before him could dodge some of luffy's attacks but not enel. He relies way too heavily on CoO. 

 

In the new world all of the big three have CoO and yet they still get hit and surprise. That shows that CoO isn't as broken when other people are using it and it cancels each other out. Unless your CoO is so broken you can see the future.

 

Not only that but compare strength. Sanji before the time skip almost broke his leg vs a pacifist. In part 2 he broke his neck. now Vergo cracks sanji leg in their fight. No, way Enel takes any of Vergo's attack and walks away from it. Not only that but Vergo's speed might be compare to luffy's gear two. Since he was able to overwhelm law with easy.   

 

Vergo is a new world veteran and would kick Enel's ass from one side of one piece to the other before the time skip if we are talking about vergo after time skip. 


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#188 Fulmine

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Posted 04 September 2018 - 01:18 AM


Yes, it does.

What does? :huh: The only sentence in that paragraph of mine that has ''doesn't'' is when I said just because Enel didn't one-shot people (Wiper as example) in Skypiea doesn't mean they aren't fodders to him and that his lightning isn't actually hindered by plot. And indeed Enel fodderizes everyone not named Luffy for obvious reasons. So yeah, don't talk fanfic!!!

 

 

 

 


Vergo trains to beat DF users of all types

Panel or it didn't happen.

 

 

 

 


The only reason Enel was broken because of CoO and his fruit. Take those away and he was weaker than sanji in that arc.

Except that his physical strength is stronger than Sanji LOL

Though yeah, if it was only his base stats then Sanji might pull a win. But we don't take away character's DF and Haki anw so...Or should I start taking CoA away from everyone and make Enel invincible except vs Luffy?

 

 

 

 


How do i know Enel is super weak look at him when he could guess luffy moves. Everyone before him could dodge some of luffy's attacks but not enel. He relies way too heavily on CoO.

I think you mean ''couldn't guess"?

 

Well, Luffy never hit him thanks to speed. He almost always hit Enel-sama with surprise factors or when he already grabbed Enel or when Enel decided to block him to begin with except for one attack after Enel used 200mil transformation.

 

 

 

 


In the new world all of the big three have CoO and yet they still get hit and surprise. That shows that CoO isn't as broken when other people are using it and it cancels each other out.

No, it is because CoO is now a plot-convenient ability, they don't even use it most of the times.

 

And Vergo doesn't have CoO feat so again, no fanfic!

 

 

 

 

 


Not only that but compare strength. Sanji before the time skip almost broke his leg vs a pacifist. In part 2 he broke his neck. now Vergo cracks sanji leg in their fight. No, way Enel takes any of Vergo's attack and walks away from it.

So 2 paragraphs into your post and I found out you attacked Strawman. I never said anything about Enel's amazing durability LOL. I'm talking about his lightning's power...Read!

 

 

 


Not only that but Vergo's speed might be compare to luffy's gear two. Since he was able to overwhelm law with easy.

G2 has not shown itself to be faster than Enel so not a point.

 

He didn't overwhelm Law without holding his heart...

 

 

 


Vergo is a new world veteran and would kick Enel's ass from one side of one piece to the other before the time skip if we are talking about vergo after time skip.

Yeah, right. That's why Law's little Counter Shock burned him. Get Enel's 100mil and good luck!


Edited by Fulmine, 04 September 2018 - 01:20 AM.

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#189 Abaroxa

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 06:08 AM

lol maybe that was harsh but comparing anyone to usopp is fighting words....

1. add ons, seems like you are using that as a bad thing, nearly everyone in OP fights with some type of "add ons" either Luffy's df or zoro's swords or sanjis......maybe he could use a few add ons.....

2. you think? don krieg was hit twice in the face, once in the chest shattering the armor, after that point he captured luffy in a net, threw him in the water, luffy gave him a crazy hit to the head, but don krieg got back up from that, only for gin to knock him down. you would figure if he was as weak as you say then luffy would of been the one to defeat him, not gin.

well if you take zoro's swords from him he is alot less useful as well, I wouldn't say don krieg is useless the man is still strong enough to throw a 10 ton steel ball with ease, he will figure something out.

I kinda see what you are saying, but the similarities start and end with "they both have a lot of weapons" Usopp is a long distance fighter that uses only his sling shot and sometimes a hammer and impact dial, Don krieg is a close to mid range fighter that uses his superior strength to dominate hand to hand combat and control the battle field. I guess we can safely say that both of them are smart and tactical thinkers, usopp created a smart way to fight luffy where don krieg also had a very good plan of keeping luffy at bay and using the water to his advantage. Don krieg on the other hand is very charismatic and calm where usopp is neither of those things. Then finally the Don uses very cheep tactics like poison gas bombs, where usopp.......usopp doesn't even use a gun......loser....


Franky on the other hand is the most dirty SH fighter there is, remember him asking nero "what is that over there" then attacking his back? Franky also has super human strength, mayby not as much as don krieg but still a lot. Franky also has steel armor, however his is internal, except where don Krieg's weakness was his face, Franky's is his back. Franky's super weapon (pre TS) was a wind cannon, Don Krieg's was a poison gas cannon. then of course the Don has a bunch of internal weapons like his 10 guns under his armor and his flame thrower, both of which franky has as well.


Maybe I am overlooking it by trying to put everything in labeled shelves but one thing I am sure, you take the armour and the weapons from krieg and ussop and that's it from them.

He was impressive in his fight with Luffy.. he has new world capability as everyone can cause you harm. Remember Monet or Caeser Vs Luffy. That's new world for you.

I'm starting to understand that the best option in the opverse is to be overall good at everything. Be balanced in terms haki, physical strength, speed, endurance, use weapons, gadgets, punch and kick. Judge had the right approach when he was training sanji.

Franky is a true pirate! How did he meet the SH? He stole from them. How did he learn about the technology that forms his new cyber body he raided vengapunk labs. He fought baby5 and the typhoon guy for no reason. He is the best pirate in the SH crew. The only ones that compare to him are NAMI, zoro and sanji and still are not as gruesome as franky

Edited by Abaroxa, 05 September 2018 - 06:10 AM.


#190 waleuska

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 11:37 PM

1.What does? :huh: The only sentence in that paragraph of mine that has ''doesn't'' is when I said just because Enel didn't one-shot people (Wiper as example) in Skypiea doesn't mean they aren't fodders to him and that his lightning isn't actually hindered by plot. And indeed Enel fodderizes everyone not named Luffy for obvious reasons. So yeah, don't talk fanfic!!!

 

 

 

 

Panel or it didn't happen.

 

 

 

 

3.Except that his physical strength is stronger than Sanji LOL

Though yeah, if it was only his base stats then Sanji might pull a win. But we don't take away character's DF and Haki anw so...Or should I start taking CoA away from everyone and make Enel invincible except vs Luffy?

 

 

 

 

4.I think you mean ''couldn't guess"?

 

Well, Luffy never hit him thanks to speed. He almost always hit Enel-sama with surprise factors or when he already grabbed Enel or when Enel decided to block him to begin with except for one attack after Enel used 200mil transformation.

 

 

 

 

5.No, it is because CoO is now a plot-convenient ability, they don't even use it most of the times.

 

And Vergo doesn't have CoO feat so again, no fanfic!

 

 

 

 

 

So 2 paragraphs into your post and I found out you attacked Strawman. I never said anything about Enel's amazing durability LOL. I'm talking about his lightning's power...Read!

 

 

 

6.G2 has not shown itself to be faster than Enel so not a point.

 

He didn't overwhelm Law without holding his heart...

 

 

 

Yeah, right. That's why Law's little Counter Shock burned him. Get Enel's 100mil and good luck!

wiper killed enel if it wasn't for plot amor he would even fight luffy. 

 

2.DD sent verigo to beat law. Why do you think that was?

 

3.just showing he is overrated with his DF. Trying to win in op with only DF isn't going to work. The furthest you will go is the gandline.

 

4. Yes, the moment he could use CoO he couldn't beat stop luffy's attacks.

 

5. Or it cancels out and that is why it seems no one is using it. CoO is broken when the other person cannot use it.

 

6. Luffy's last attack enel says fast. At no time is enel shown to be fast only that he can dodge attacks because of CoO. 

 

You whole primis that enel is god like is beacuse of His DF which is only decent. You give way to much credit when all of his other stats suck. 


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#191 Fulmine

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 01:13 AM


wiper killed enel if it wasn't for plot amor he would even fight luffy.

What plot-armor? It's Enel's own ability...and even then it was because Enel gave him the chance to begin with. If Akainu lets Usopp shoot him out of pity and Usopp successfully disguises his sea stone cuff inside a ball of plant and Akainu gets caught, it wouldn't mean Usopp is not fodder to Akainu LOL It would just mean Akainu can lose given advantageous enough circumstance for Usopp.

 

 


2.DD sent verigo to beat law. Why do you think that was?

Because he believes Vergo is stronger. But how does that prove your statement? Just because I think Vergo is stronger than Mr.3 and that his CoA can beat Mr.3's DF for example, doesn't mean I believe Vergo trains to fight all sorts of DF (like Cracker's biscuit or Akainu's magma etc.)...He trains his CoA and CoA can counter DFs (though it depends on mastery and situations. Did you see Katakuri's CoA+DF combination being better than Luffy's and so despite Luffy's Hardening the mochi's stickiness still works on him?) but that doesn't mean he trains to fight all sorts of DFs. That would mean something like he obtains the DF encyclopedia, reads through what all types of DF do and trains to specifically counter them. But Oda never said that and so Vergo is just one of several competent CoA users in this manga. Tashigi also learned CoA in the timeskip, yet you don't say Tashigi trained to fight all types of DF...how about sending her to fight Magellan then?

 

Don't be obtuse and just retort for the sake of it...

 

 

 


3.just showing he is overrated with his DF. Trying to win in op with only DF isn't going to work. The furthest you will go is the gandline.

Is that why Sugar fodderizes a bunch of CoA users in New World with her hax? Or BM only needs her DF to diss out a pitiful lightning strike to one-shot Sanji's father, the oh so mighty Judge? Or Law actually one-shot Vergo's full-bodied Hardening? etc.

Hell post-TS how many people actually using CoO in NW? With Enel's CoO and lightning speed he would dodge most of them LOL CoA is useless if you can't hit the target. Haki isn't a be-all-end-all solution to DFs. And not everyone has rubber fruit.

 

Also, again, we don't take away characters' DFs. Don't dodge that point! This doesn't help your original point (which is Wiper and SHs in Skypiea are not fodders to Enel) in the slightest. You're just trying to reply to me for the sake of alleviating your bad opinions and the more you do that , the further away you stray from your argument.

 

 


4. Yes, the moment he could use CoO he couldn't beat stop luffy's attacks.

He did...several times...do you even read the fight when Enel kept dodging Luffy, caught his punches etc.? So you like to bank your argument on one outlier (plot-armor) yet use ''plot-armor'' when you think it works for your argument (even though it isn't even a plot-armor so you're wrong two ways)? Good double standard!

 

 

 


5. Or it cancels out and that is why it seems no one is using it. CoO is broken when the other person cannot use it.

How does CoO cancels out? Like when Oda drew Luffy vs Katakuri. We clearly saw how Oda portrayed Luffy's CoO improved and he started dodging and hitting Katakuri and Katakuri reacted to it in his head by wondering ''did he see the future?''. Such thing did not happen in any degree before that. Ergo Luffy didn't even have any problem before with CoO otherwise he would have commented on it that this or that character dodged him LOL But of course how could he have problem when he didn't even use it? It's canon Luffy didn't use CoO because he wasn't able to notice the difference between DD and his thread clone...

 

So basically, it's your fanfic. Sorry that logic doesn't fly. And Vergo doesn't have CoO feat, period.

 

 


6. Luffy's last attack enel says fast.

 

At no time is enel shown to be fast only that he can dodge attacks because of CoO.

And that means it's faster than Enel how? Ironman can call the best Havard student excellent. Because he IS excellent compared to the majority of student population. That doesn't mean Ironman is saying he's a better engineer than him...acknowledging something =/= saying that something is better than you.

 

 

At several times. Now you're just lying through your teeth LOL. Enel twice moved out of Luffy's sight (once during their fight when Enel got into the golden wall and second when Enel left Maxim when Luffy was climbing) when Luffy was looking directly at him without Luffy's noticing. Ergo he was too fast for Luffy to perceive. And this is the same (hell, actually more experienced) Luffy who beat Kuro whose speed is confirmed by Oda to be roughly the same as CP9's Soru (in fact Luffy easily followed Blueno's Soru speed) which is comparable to G2.

 

 

 


ou whole primis that enel is god like is beacuse of His DF which is only decent. You give way to much credit when all of his other stats suck.

No, because of his CoO, too.

 

His other stats don't suck when he's stronger than Sanji and Zolo whose EastBlue selves are already stronger than Dellinger, a competent post-TS fighter (as in fodderizing Ideo, Blue Gilly, Bellamy and Slayman). He just lacks CoA. I already addressed this in previous pages.

 

And finally let say you're right, how does his other stats' being suck affect his God-like status thanks to his DF and CoO? That's like saying because my literature sucks my 100% score on math exam paper does not worth shit...at best you can only say he isn't the strongest God but he would still clobber most of post-TS fighters. Especially now that he knows DFs that can hit him exist. He would be way more careful than before.


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