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[Discussion] Power Levels (Part 4)


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#21 captain kidd

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 12:06 PM

It is not far off if we assume that Garp, who unlike WB was not sick on MF war, is most likely still one of the best haki users there are in op world. Reason for that is that only him and WB were equals to GR, and unlike WB, Garp does not seem to be a fruit user, ergo his lacking destructive ability is safe to assume to have been overcome by sheer massiv haki. Moreover Garp already was discribed as the Demon of the marines iirc.
Therefore i doubt that any other character, except Shanks, whos haki was already pointed out to be special, and mayhaps Kaidou who seems like a brawler to me (pure speculation though), has anywhere near the amount of Haki Garp once was capable of in the past, not necessarily in MF war anymore though.
Furthermore Garp made it pretty clear that he at least pretty much stood hugely above Akainu by saying to Sengoku he'd better keep Garp down otherwise Akainu would get murdered, although he pretty much came to his senses shortly thereafter,meaning not to betray/weakening the marines by such a deed.
I may be biased here, but for me only Garp was able to inflict any damage to Marco (prior to kairoseki, the harm he received during that time for me has hugely affected his fighting prowess in generel, since i doubt that someone that normally does not feel any damage, because of DF, has a huge pain resistance), therefore his fighting capacity, at least for me, is still hugely underrated.


Wait what? All i remember is him stating that he could not stay the strongest forever...shit its been a too long time, i think i should reread op.....

BTW i dont mean to state/present what i wrote as fact, just things to consider.


I think there are a few too many assumption in your analysis of garp.
1- him and wb were gold rogers equals. I dont think this is the case. If anything they were a little weaker, but if they were his equals, espically wb, roger couldnt really be the king.
2- garp's lack of df power is compensated by his haki. This conclusion doesnt need to follow at all. The man can lift up a several 100 ton steel ball and throw it with ease. That hakiless feat alone puts him in the top 20 fighters we know about. Give him emperor level endurance and make him the best hand to hand fighter in op and he could have no haki and still be the 3rd or 4th strongest in his hay day.
So obviously garp has good or even great haki, but he doesnt have to have amazing haki just because he lacks a df. Miahwk could have mediocre haki and he would still be mihawk.

Also, and this will be controversial, lets talk about garp's haki. Haki is willpower, and as rey explained to my horror, "not doubting ones self, that is power" and tons of fans claimed chinjoa is weaker due to his emotional state. So haki is directly linked to ones emotinal state and drive. What is garp's drive? What does garp have to fight for or strive to acomplish? Roger is probably dead his son doesnt seem too important to him and he let ace be executed so why would garp have a powerful drive? Espically in the war when he was actively fighting against ace living which we saw later, is not what he wanted.

So that is just food for thought, i am not aure i even believe the whole "stronger belife = stronger haki" that seems stupid, but i have heard it enough i figured it was worth the mention.
Oh side note, speaking of stupid haki uses, if luffy can run out of coa, why does he cover his whole fist in it for elephant gun when he only need to cover the knuckles? The black look is cool but a waste of haki.




Ok for wb's "i cant always be the strongest" the oppertive word is "always" or "forever" it is the same way a parent will talk when they have to do something for their kids
Kid "dad make me dinner"
Dad "you will have to learn to make it yourself, i wont always be around to do this"
The sentence proves the parent will do the task, but highlights the fact the child needs to learn. Obviously wb isnt telling his kids they need to become the strongest.

I think most importantly is sengoku, the man called the buddah would surely know he cant give wb titles he didnt earn for the sake of unit moral.
If you were a certain MMA fightee who recently got his ass kicked by arguably the best ever professional boxer, what would you rather hear going into the match to give you a better out look on victory
"That man is the world's best boxer, he could defest anyone on earth in a boxing match he hs no equal"
Or
"That man is 40 years old hasnt been in the ring in 1 year and even then he did bad. He is great but he is beatable, he may have been the best at one point but now he is old, this is you time"

Napoleon said 70% of the battle is moral. If you wanted to motivate your soldiers, sengoku yelling "watchout the storngest man on the world is comming" "oh no wb has the power to destroy the world" that isnt helping your soldiers.

I will admit sengoku is only as smart as oda knows how to make him.... oda had wb's "smart move" coating his ships then putting himself in the center of an ambush. That is the equivlent of turning invisible, robbing a bank, then reappearing in the center of a prison. Oda failed wb there. If oda had wb do that same exact move, only pop up in the tri current and try to take ace back, that would be genius, could you imagine that?

Also there is the arguement sengoku kept his title to keep his men on their toes, but that is stupid. His fodder wasnt going to assume wb was their level because he was sick. It could only possibly help in the op world.
 
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#22 D.Hyuga

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 04:18 PM


Ok for wb's "i cant always be the strongest" the oppertive word is "always" or "forever" it is the same way a parent will talk when they have to do something for their kids
Kid "dad make me dinner"
Dad "you will have to learn to make it yourself, i wont always be around to do this"
The sentence proves the parent will do the task, but highlights the fact the child needs to learn. Obviously wb isnt telling his kids they need to become the strongest.

 

 

You should take better example, that one has nothing to do with what WB said.

 

You could give example of Bolt.

 

                USAIN BOLT

[ THE WORLD'S FASTEST MAN ]

 

And at WC he came with that title, he went in retirement with that title, but was he the fastest at WC, NO!

 

So maybe WB's power level at prime was greater than anyone at that time, maybe even at MF no one gained power as WB had in his prime, when he was named WSM, but WB was not the strongest man at MF.

 

I really hope that you and others now understand how things are.



#23 captain kidd

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Posted Yesterday, 09:09 AM

You should take better example, that one has nothing to do with what WB said.

You could give example of Bolt.

USAIN BOLT
[ THE WORLD'S FASTEST MAN ]

And at WC he came with that title, he went in retirement with that title, but was he the fastest at WC, NO!

So maybe WB's power level at prime was greater than anyone at that time, maybe even at MF no one gained power as WB had in his prime, when he was named WSM, but WB was not the strongest man at MF.

I really hope that you and others now understand how things are.


That example is horrible.... not only is usain bolt not the fastest man alive, and never was, but he isnt anymore.

1- "the fastest man alive" is more of a marketing/ branding attmept. Look at wwe they had a guy called Mark Henery who was billed as the world's strongest man. He wasnt. Same story. They both have impressive records in single events within their much larger sports.
2- He never was the world's fastest man. He was a sprinter who compete in 100-200m events. Put him in a maraton and he is out of his element, he would lose, So that means someone would be faster then him right? In one/two events of the large sport of track and field he was the best, but like i said above, Mark Henery's world record in military press doesnt mean he is the strongest man in the world, it is only one event.
3- who the hell gives out titles? In OP it is an omnicient narrator. Is the real world? Well? Me? Do i give out titles? Then i will give myself the title of world's most correct debator.

But if you really want this uncompatable anaology to work fine, it would be perfect if usain bolt had a WB moment right before the last olympics.
"I cant always be the fastest sprinter in the 100m/200m" then he went out and was but was obviously losing his once great speed, yet he still won the race.


The more apt comparison can only be found in fiction. Where an all knowing narrator gives an elderly character a title.




Frankly, i am sick of this nonsense. I have oda, i have sengoku and WB and everyone else in the war saying wb is the strongest. What evidence do you have that wb WASN'T the strongest? Your feelings?
 
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#24 capu

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Posted Yesterday, 03:12 PM


If anything they were a little weaker, but if they were his equals, espically wb, roger couldnt really be the king.

Well there is a difference. I mean  following ur logic WB would have been king after GRs death. The reason WB, as GRs equal was not king but GR was that he simply had no interest in seizing the throne like DD implied. All WB ever cared about  was his family, not toppling the WG or making them his enemy by revealing the informaiton about what Raftel actually is about. He himself stated that he had no interest in going to Raftel in his meeting with GR, but for common folks the king is the one who reaches Raftel, which even if he knew the truth about the  history, but unbeknownst to the common folk, WB did not do.

 

 


garp's lack of df power is compensated by his haki. This conclusion doesnt need to follow at all.

True that, but considering the info we currently have, which is that all powerhouses possess haki and use it (with the exception of possibly BB, who may have wanted his his darkness fruit in order to make up for his lacking amount haki, not that he does not have it, simply not strong enough), i dont believe it to be likely.

 

 

 


Give him emperor level endurance and make him the best hand to hand fighter in op and he could have no haki and still be the 3rd or 4th strongest in his hay day.

I would agree if it were not for the fact that Oda directly linked Garp to GR and WB. If he would have simply been the 3rd, 4rth strongest it might have been possible if the gap was still huge, but Oda choose to make them equals, and someone with the power to fight the WG alongside his crew and possibly even win (sick old dieing WB far away from prime was enough to make them shit their pants), if it were not for Garp and illness must have tremendous power himself. I highly doubtful that GR and Garp do not mimik one another, espeically if u consider that the main  character Luffy is Garps grandson, and his haki in MF was said to have been because it was lineage thing, mimiks both as well (Gorosei commented Luffys several actions/rashness as having to do with being Garps grandson). Thus highly likely that Garp is the reason for Luffys high haki potential and has used it himself. 

 

 

 


So obviously garp has good or even great haki, but he doesnt have to have amazing haki just because he lacks a df. Miahwk could have mediocre haki and he would still be mihawk.

True but mihawk is a swordsman and we know that cutting has to do with understanding the aura of something else (Zoro vs Mr.1). Moreover i believe Mihawk to be a bad example, since he is the only swrodsman we know of whos sword is constantly clad in haki.

 

 

 


What is garp's drive?

We know far too little about the reasons for Garp having ever become marine, therefore all i can do here is speculate. i.e. it might even be that as a youth he saw an entire nation having been oppressed by some ruler/dictator or soemthing like that, which led to Garp becoming driven by his desire to protect innocents from such people, making him become an marine.

It could also be that all he ever wished  to become was an honorable man in itself, thus the drive being honor, he choose his obligation as a marine above his parental views/love i.e. because for him it was the thing he needed to do. Such responsible behavior may be enough to enforce/strenghten ur haki.

 

 

 


why would garp have a powerful drive?

Because the GR time was said to have been far worse than the current one. Therefore the amount of people in need of protection might have been significantly higher.

 

 


Espically in the war when he was actively fighting against ace living which we saw later, is not what he wanted.

 

I  agree but all that means is that Garp in MF would not haven been 100% Garp, not that his haki would not still have been among the highest, even if lower than if under other circumstances, there was in MF war. After Aces death Garp was sure to still have been capable of murdering Ace after all. And this was still a Garp who is old and whos prime because of age has long passed, just like with WB.

 

 

 


Oh side note, speaking of stupid haki uses, if luffy can run out of coa, why does he cover his whole fist in it for elephant gun when he only need to cover the knuckles? The black look is cool but a waste of haki.

I have asked myself the same question, sadly have not found an answer to it yet.

 

 


Ok for wb's "i cant always be the strongest" the oppertive word is "always" or "forever" it is the same way a parent will talk when they have to do something for their kids

Kid "dad make me dinner"
Dad "you will have to learn to make it yourself, i wont always be around to do this"
The sentence proves the parent will do the task, but highlights the fact the child needs to learn. Obviously wb isnt telling his kids they need to become the strongest.

.

I aint sure but was that not a speech bubble signifing a thought, not words spoken aloud? 

Ye i checked, it is a thought , ergo WB actually admitted that he could not stay the strongest forever. http://mangaseeonlin...63-page-23.html

 

 

 


That is the equivlent of turning invisible, robbing a bank, then reappearing in the center of a prison.

:D

 

 

 


So maybe WB's power level at prime was greater than anyone at that time, maybe even at MF no one gained power as WB had in his prime, when he was named WSM, but WB was not the strongest man at MF.

I agree.

 

 


Frankly, i am sick of this nonsense. I have oda, i have sengoku and WB and everyone else in the war saying wb is the strongest. What evidence do you have that wb WASN'T the strongest? Your feelings?

Several people (croc marco etc) claming WB has severely weakened. WB not being able to use CoC when he is said to have had it, but unable to do what Luffy does....WB being unable to use CoO when Marco says he should have seen this coming. For someone to have such extremely lower haki ability then what even fodder is capable of cries: fuck it i am fodder to whom i once was!

 

WB having the need of constant supervising by doctors and having the need for cannules cries: shit  my health sucks, i am at deaths door...

 

WB getting 2 heart attacks cries: fuck it i truly am close to death....dont know why not die inMF since i die in a month or 2 anyway....

 

WBs CoA sucking so much he was unable to protect himself  from fodders gunshots cries: shit man i need to fully concentrate everything i have to not die because of the strain breathing (or somehting the like) puts on me....hmh best die in MF that way i can die standing tall one last time.....showing them that even if sick old and dieing those fodder shits who call themselfs adrmials are nowhere to what i once was even if only like at 50% max to whom i was...


Edited by capu, Yesterday, 03:21 PM.


#25 Sesshoumaru

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Posted Yesterday, 04:29 PM

Marco vs Katakuri - Katakuri wins high diff.

Marco vs Cracker - Marco wins high diff.

Jozu vs Katakuri - Katakuri wins high diff.

Jozu vs Cracker - Jozu wins high diff (Cracker can't hurt him).

Vista vs Katakuri - Katakuri wins mid to high diff.

Vista vs Cracker - Vista wins high dif. (bad matchup for Cracker since swords are more likely to cut through his defense which is his one major skill)

 

I might upgrade Marco to a close win vs Katakuri when he gets better feats in the future.

 

Oh and everyone >> Smoothie



#26 D.Hyuga

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Posted Yesterday, 04:58 PM


Marco vs Cracker - Marco wins high diff.

 

Marco is lacking fire power, he wont be able to brake Crackers cocoon.

 

Vista is highly overrated, just because Mihawk didn't one shot him, that doesn't mean that he is great, and he also lack fire power.

 

Jozu has strength and diamond protection, and err nothing else, DD  toyed with him.



#27 captain kidd

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Posted Yesterday, 08:21 PM

Well there is a difference. I mean following ur logic WB would have been king after GRs death. The reason WB, as GRs equal was not king but GR was that he simply had no interest in seizing the throne like DD implied. All WB ever cared about was his family, not toppling the WG or making them his enemy by revealing the informaiton about what Raftel actually is about. He himself stated that he had no interest in going to Raftel in his meeting with GR, but for common folks the king is the one who reaches Raftel, which even if he knew the truth about the history, but unbeknownst to the common folk, WB did not do.


True that, but considering the info we currently have, which is that all powerhouses possess haki and use it (with the exception of possibly BB, who may have wanted his his darkness fruit in order to make up for his lacking amount haki, not that he does not have it, simply not strong enough), i dont believe it to be likely.



I would agree if it were not for the fact that Oda directly linked Garp to GR and WB. If he would have simply been the 3rd, 4rth strongest it might have been possible if the gap was still huge, but Oda choose to make them equals, and someone with the power to fight the WG alongside his crew and possibly even win (sick old dieing WB far away from prime was enough to make them shit their pants), if it were not for Garp and illness must have tremendous power himself. I highly doubtful that GR and Garp do not mimik one another, espeically if u consider that the main character Luffy is Garps grandson, and his haki in MF was said to have been because it was lineage thing, mimiks both as well (Gorosei commented Luffys several actions/rashness as having to do with being Garps grandson). Thus highly likely that Garp is the reason for Luffys high haki potential and has used it himself.



True but mihawk is a swordsman and we know that cutting has to do with understanding the aura of something else (Zoro vs Mr.1). Moreover i believe Mihawk to be a bad example, since he is the only swrodsman we know of whos sword is constantly clad in haki.



We know far too little about the reasons for Garp having ever become marine, therefore all i can do here is speculate. i.e. it might even be that as a youth he saw an entire nation having been oppressed by some ruler/dictator or soemthing like that, which led to Garp becoming driven by his desire to protect innocents from such people, making him become an marine.
It could also be that all he ever wished to become was an honorable man in itself, thus the drive being honor, he choose his obligation as a marine above his parental views/love i.e. because for him it was the thing he needed to do. Such responsible behavior may be enough to enforce/strenghten ur haki.



Because the GR time was said to have been far worse than the current one. Therefore the amount of people in need of protection might have been significantly higher.



I agree but all that means is that Garp in MF would not haven been 100% Garp, not that his haki would not still have been among the highest, even if lower than if under other circumstances, there was in MF war. After Aces death Garp was sure to still have been capable of murdering Ace after all. And this was still a Garp who is old and whos prime because of age has long passed, just like with WB.



I have asked myself the same question, sadly have not found an answer to it yet.


.
I aint sure but was that not a speech bubble signifing a thought, not words spoken aloud?
Ye i checked, it is a thought , ergo WB actually admitted that he could not stay the strongest forever. http://mangaseeonlin...63-page-23.html



:D



I agree.


Several people (croc marco etc) claming WB has severely weakened. WB not being able to use CoC when he is said to have had it, but unable to do what Luffy does....WB being unable to use CoO when Marco says he should have seen this coming. For someone to have such extremely lower haki ability then what even fodder is capable of cries: fuck it i am fodder to whom i once was!

WB having the need of constant supervising by doctors and having the need for cannules cries: shit my health sucks, i am at deaths door...

WB getting 2 heart attacks cries: fuck it i truly am close to death....dont know why not die inMF since i die in a month or 2 anyway....

WBs CoA sucking so much he was unable to protect himself from fodders gunshots cries: shit man i need to fully concentrate everything i have to not die because of the strain breathing (or somehting the like) puts on me....hmh best die in MF that way i can die standing tall one last time.....showing them that even if sick old and dieing those fodder shits who call themselfs adrmials are nowhere to what i once was even if only like at 50% max to whom i was...


I dont have much time so i cant reply in length. But i have to say these-

1- speach or thought that isnt the point, the point is how that phrase is used. It is used as a way of saying "one day i will lose this"
Have you never really seen someone talking like this before? The most famous instence ever is in leathal weapon 3, the infamous "i am getting too old for this" line from Murtaugh. He didnt mean that line to say "shit i am old i cant do this i quit" he ment it as "wow i am getting old, one day soon i will not be able to do this"
Wb saying "i cant be the strongest forever" is the same thing.
Try this yourself. Look in a mirror, say "i cant have this amazing hair forever" ok makes sense, now remember your something that you have long since lost, idk your favorite shoes, and say "i cant wear air jordans forever" the fact you currently are not wearing and dont even own a pair will make what you said not only look stupid, but pointless and obvious.

So ask yourself, was wb saying one day he will lose his throne, or was he using a cryptic message to directly contradict oda and confuse us fans 4+ years later.


2 ya no one is denying wb was weaker. The question is was he still the strongest. By virtue of WB's DF alone he was in the top 10, give buggy his df and buggy would be in the top 10. How much more did wb need? He still had insane physical strength durability that would put anyone to shame. Ya his haki was possibly bad...still was able to hit akainu.....

I would still put old wb against BM and expect him to win 10 times out of 10
 
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#28 Fulmine

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Posted Yesterday, 08:42 PM


Marco vs Cracker - Marco wins high diff.

This fight is between two guys whose attacking power is near meaningless against each other's defense/regeneration. They would just look at each other and wait till one is tired and sleepy to sneak a hit LOL

Marco has a little bit higher chance of winning though, given Cracker is glass canon so just a successfully landed kick might do wonder.

 

 

 

 


Vista vs Cracker - Vista wins high dif. (bad matchup for Cracker since swords are more likely to cut through his defense which is his one major skill)

I'm not sure if you're making pun (punch or kick or the likes doesn't cut so technically, by default sword attacks cut better :lol:) or if you really believe in that, which is something completely nonsense whether you use real life logic or One Piece logic.

 

Real life logic: pressure is a thing

One Piece logic: CoA/Hardening.


Edited by Fulmine, Yesterday, 08:43 PM.

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