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[Character] Vinsmoke Sanji (Part 28)


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#41 Baks

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 02:24 AM

I kinda agree, Sanji should just leave the crew forever.

This arc is a prime example of his incompetence and dithering, when the going gets tough he just bails out of making the hard decisions to make.

He pretty much has given up hope, which is a really damning indictment on his part. Especially when there is so much on the line - like his own life, his crewmates, his foster father's and his sister's.

Not to mention his total unwillingness to fight women is stupid and lame. Newsflash, to Sanji - women can be just as evil and cruel as men.

Plus this stance, turned out so great for Sanji during the EL arc - NOT. He almost got killed by Kalifa during that arc due to his unwillingness to fight her.

Also he has just got exceedingly annoying especially post timeskip what with all the lame nosebleed gags. Particularly when that gag got turned into a serious plot point during the FI arc.
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#42 Sanji

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 02:40 AM

It's official that Luffy can not become the Pirate King without his help, so for now he's the only SH that was directly told by Luffy that he's indispensable.

 

Because it's easy to have yourself locked out of options, and have to play the game with the cards you are given. It takes a smart man to realize when he's in that position though, an idiot might as well wave his hands and charge onwards regardless of the situation.

 

He has given up on the options that were not at all feasible at the time. Some of his shackles are now removed, and so he will get to the point where he actually has a viable choice.

 

Reads the manga for 800 + chapters and thinks Sanji is not aware that women can be evil and cruel. It takes above average reading comprehension to understand Sanji's character, and unfortunately the average OP reader doesn't seem to have what it takes to see the full picture.

 

Sanji never held himself back because he thought Kalifa's the kindest person on earth.

 

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#43 ddboy102

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 05:42 AM


It's official that Luffy can not become the Pirate King without his help, so for now he's the only SH that was directly told by Luffy that he's indispensable

 

Meh!!! Luffy just likes the chaos, besides Sanji is only indepensiable because Luffy refuses to eat anyone elses food not because they can't get another chef.


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#44 Fulmine

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 07:20 AM


He was "only" the tenth most popular character in the last pre time skip poll

When he simply just showed up for a few chapters. The guy was crazily liked from the very start. It's not like he jumped from 40th place to 2nd.

 


and his second place was achieved mid way Dressrosa. I get that Law's crazy popular, but i don't know about characters being heavily focused not making a difference for his position, when him getting that spot seems to correlate with him getting that focus. Kidd for example was the 15th most popular character back then, and he dropped 3 spots instead of climbing 7, most likely because he got a whole lot less focus than Law post time skip.

Rather than focus it's more like flesh-out. So Law's Dresrosa is basically like Sanji's Baratie and he is 2nd instead of Sanji's 3rd. Plus Sanji's character has long been established. This arc shed some more light but it's not like he changes tremendously, at least for now, so the added votes aren't easily be on par with Law's, in whose case, like I said, it's a flesh out where his whole history and character were being done for the 1st time. Not that I think it's impossible to steal the 2nd place but it's damn unlikely.


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#45 captain kidd

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 08:12 AM

Sanji ruins everyone

- He pretty much destroyed his family and killed his Mom
- He cost Zeff's legs
- It was his fault the Baratie was attacked
- His uselessness almost costed Luffy his life when climbing up that Mountain to get the doctor
- Brought Duval to the Strawhats
- Nearly killed by the Duval pirates, poor Cami had to risk her life.

Truely, Sanji is a walking diaster.
Luffy should get rid of him.


Ya and not only that but nami proved she can cook just as good as Sanji given his directions. She can be he cook also. Or we can get a better cook, cami can cook and call food right to the ship
 

It's official that Luffy can not become the Pirate King without his help, so for now he's the only SH that was directly told by Luffy that he's indispensable.

Because it's easy to have yourself locked out of options, and have to play the game with the cards you are given. It takes a smart man to realize when he's in that position though, an idiot might as well wave his hands and charge onwards regardless of the situation.

He has given up on the options that were not at all feasible at the time. Some of his shackles are now removed, and so he will get to the point where he actually has a viable choice.

Reads the manga for 800 + chapters and thinks Sanji is not aware that women can be evil and cruel. It takes above average reading comprehension to understand Sanji's character, and unfortunately the average OP reader doesn't seem to have what it takes to see the full picture.

Sanji never held himself back because he thought Kalifa's the kindest person on earth.

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He wasn't out of options!!!!!!!

He had millions of options, you are not thinking clear enough.

Here is what I would of done back when Capone was attacking my crew.
"Come with us Sanji or we will kill zeff"
"Go ahead, VA garp is stationed in that sea and a regular at zeffs place...... so have fun"

Or

"Come with us Sanji or we will kill zeff"
"No no no I have already been over this, zeff already told me to not worry about him because he saved my life so I could live it the way I want not throw it away"

Or

"Come with us Sanji or we will kill zeff"
"No I don't think I will, luffy just last arc said he would protect the family of a giant octopus..... I am willing to bet my boss who also last arc said he wants to defeat all emperors will help me protect my family by defeating BM"

Or

"Come with us Sanji or we will kill zeff"
"Who is that? I don't care about that old bad he touched me as a child please kill him, I will even tell you his weakness, whisper* he is missing a leg"

Or

"Come with us Sanji or we will kill zeff"
"Ok but I am going to go there with my crew, no offense but I am not too trusting of your crew.....give me a log pose or I will be there in a few months"


Any one of those methods would of been better then what Sanji did. They would all slow him down, give him time to think, and most importantly, allow him to talk it out with his crew, who anyone could tell you would follow him either way.

And that isn't even to talk about he tactics Sanji had at his disposal after he arrived.

Tactics one- fake your death, this has done many times in op pell and conis's dad come to mind. Sanji could pretend to die in a fire or something to hide from the wedding

Tactics two- reverse pudding. Attack BM troops making it look like G66 did it, attack G66 make it look like BM did it. Make enough chaos so neither side trusts the other and break them up.

Tactics three- trick pudding into running away. (Obviously this won't work) or kidnap her and hide her. Fake a run away note (or on a darker and non OP note, kill her) BM already proved no child means no wedding.

Tactics four- call the marines. Long shot, but maybe if Sanji acts as an inside man and uses his connections from
G5 he made on PH he could coordinate an admiral and buster call showing up and killing G66 and BM. Akainu would love it.

Tactics five- free CC. Kinda like my previous idea of calling the marines, if Sanji is able to free the island busting superweapon mad genius he could create enough chaos that the wedding won't go on. This chapter smoothie confirmed if enough chaos happens before the wedding it will probably be called off. Or as payment for freeing him, cc could help Sanji fake his own death.... or cc could actually kill him as payback for getting him in that mess to start.

Tactics six- yep more then Zoro could think of. Call in the SH crew/fleet/ allies. I mean I can concievably see the SH crew and allies beating both G66 and BM.


I know I know a lot of those plans have low chance of success and some of them have serious logistical issues- for example how would Sanji "call the marines" a phone? Maybe they are all hidden.....

But. Every one of those plans, even the low chance of success plans are better then sanji's current plan of "cry and allow BM to kill you"

So I don't know where in earth you get off saying "he is out of ideas" there are plenty of ideas. And just for the record my fingers were flying through this entire post, these were all off the top of my head..... and looking back most of them aren't bad. I like the marine one the best even if it would be the hardest.
 
And don't talk to us about above average reading comp to understand Sanji. Sanji is a moron who deserves to die for his backwards thinking.

Why do you think therapy exists? Because it is harder to live life when you are messed up in the head.


He should be like Zoro, Zoro doesn't want to hit women yet he won't let one kill him or his friends or...... his friendly rival....


 
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#46 Madara D Dragon

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 12:07 PM

Lol... people saying Sanji is useless because more people can cook. Yeah, like an archaeologist and a musician are necessary... Not even having a carpenter or a doctor is necessary on itself, you know?

Wait... if you think about it, what essential feature does Zoro add to the crew? wait..? No...what? Oh, nothing? Ok, good. He adds NOTHING. And you're gping to tell me "Hey Madara, he adds strength!". Guess what... Sanji does it too!! (even if slightly less). So yeah, you're talking about how a guy who has strength (bigger than the whole crew-Luffy and Zoro) and cooks doesn't add anything because "anyone can cook", but most of the ones saying it think Zoro is so important because he's strong, when he doesn't even add an extra value "necessary to a pirate crew" as you all seem to say. So if strength is a value you consider useful, stop saying Sanji is useless when more than half of the crew is more useless than him in that sense...

This was so you all can see how easy it is to critizise, and to see how little sense some people make.... (Don't think I prefer Sani over Zoro, It's just that I can't understand peoples critics on any of them. I honestly think every SH is necessary to the crew in their own way, and specially, the main reason being LUFFY F**** WANTS THEM IN THE CREW BECAUSE THEY ARE HIS FRIENDS. Looks like most of you don't even get one of the main points of this manga... (Which was incredibly represented on Luffy vs Sanji and how Luffy showed he understands his friends more than a normal funny carefree main character of a shonen manga would, which I personally loved and made me like him even more). So yes, regardless of what you think, any SH member is necessary for Luffy, as he simply wouldn't go on with his trip without them. But please, stop being hate-blind and admit Sanji's usefullnes to the crew (remember the sentence Luffy said to the minks, that before the war they need Sanji as he is a really helpful member strength wise).

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#47 captain kidd

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 01:05 PM

Oh beieleve me I have Robin enough shit for being a worthless waste of space. That was before Oda changed the rules and now apperently Robin is necessary to find the final island.

Believe it or not. A musician is entertainment, and study's prove entertainment is actually a necessary part of human life. If you don't believe me go live on a desert island by yourself for a few years and see how well that goes. That being said luffy has his friends for entertainment so brook is kinda useless too.

As for chopper and franky. Well. If you want to play that game early luffy and Bartolommeo proved not even a navigator is necessary. But is it nice to have someone to fix you up after a fight? Ya. It is nice to have someone to keep your ship running? Ya.

Zoro...... darn where is a Zoro fan when you need them..... Zoro is the first mate (unofficially) he serves an important role, the first mate is responsible for keeping order and making sure the crew is in check..... Zoro has done this mostly by keeping luffy in check.... but non the less there are very important reasons for having a clear #2 in command, just ask the children of Muhammad. Or the children of the sage of the 6 paths.(ya ya one was designated to take over but it wasn't clear enough)


I think it is hard to say anyone who isn't brook is more useless then he guy who let himself be killed by a woman that was fodder compared to him
 
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#48 dbgetblack

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 01:07 PM

i would rather post about Sanji and his "action" here on the character thread . 

>I do consider sanji's ;leg work interesting ,and its a fight style ODA gave him,and he did manage "well" up until now,speciallye his Sky/blue walk is prettty cool i;d say.

>Sanji was never ever this emo sissy before this arc,i have no doubt when i say,i liked Sanji way much before this arc,up until he decided to ditch captain,left weaker members to a treacherous (though not exactly known at that point) yankou,on the verge of death. 

>Sanji was present on Vivi,nami,Robin's sermon , got a teaching of "journey" first hand ,and yet he did this, (although ODA knew this ,and countered his action,proved him wrong on the action,called his character out open via pudding and left him motionless)

>sanji's dream: look this one is important, he originally wanted to just hide(from his family mainly,now that we know that),so his dream was just simple,to reach the all blue,but once he joined Shs,one other "dream" came up, to be the black leg that the world will know,thats exactly what made him so cool.  but this arc just dragged him though  such lobotomization that we had to call it. 
thats it. 



#49 captain kidd

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 01:23 PM

I was going to say how stupid sanji's nickname is but then I remembered zoros is stupider. All the SH really have bad nicknames.

Straw hat- something he wears
Pirate hunter- wasn't he just a bounty hunter? Did he only hunt pirates?.... as opposed to.... mountain bandits?
Black leg- the color of his pants
Cyborg- was awesome until we found out the WG has 100 cyborgs
Soul king- seeing as BM is the actual ruler of souls, it seems the same as calling east blue Zoro "sword king"
Devil child- because she knows how to read
Sniper king- never trust a man who gives himself a nickname
Cat burglar- not bad, but when was the last time she stole something?
Cotten candy lover- not even touching this one.


Guess it is subjective and I am sure I will soon hear how awesome black leg is. But they all seem lame compared to some titles. Pirate empress, cannibal, tryannt, heavenly demon,god, land destroying, fire fist.

I say they need new titles.
 
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#50 Baks

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 02:21 PM

Lol... people saying Sanji is useless because more people can cook. Yeah, like an archaeologist and a musician are necessary... Not even having a carpenter or a doctor is necessary on itself, you know?
Wait... if you think about it, what essential feature does Zoro add to the crew? wait..? No...what? Oh, nothing? Ok, good. He adds NOTHING. And you're gping to tell me "Hey Madara, he adds strength!". Guess what... Sanji does it too!! (even if slightly less). So yeah, you're talking about how a guy who has strength (bigger than the whole crew-Luffy and Zoro) and cooks doesn't add anything because "anyone can cook", but most of the ones saying it think Zoro is so important because he's strong, when he doesn't even add an extra value "necessary to a pirate crew" as you all seem to say. So if strength is a value you consider useful, stop saying Sanji is useless when more than half of the crew is more useless than him in that sense...
This was so you all can see how easy it is to critizise, and to see how little sense some people make.... (Don't think I prefer Sani over Zoro, It's just that I can't understand peoples critics on any of them. I honestly think every SH is necessary to the crew in their own way, and specially, the main reason being LUFFY F**** WANTS THEM IN THE CREW BECAUSE THEY ARE HIS FRIENDS. Looks like most of you don't even get one of the main points of this manga... (Which was incredibly represented on Luffy vs Sanji and how Luffy showed he understands his friends more than a normal funny carefree main character of a shonen manga would, which I personally loved and made me like him even more). So yes, regardless of what you think, any SH member is necessary for Luffy, as he simply wouldn't go on with his trip without them. But please, stop being hate-blind and admit Sanji's usefullnes to the crew (remember the sentence Luffy said to the minks, that before the war they need Sanji as he is a really helpful member strength wise).


Crappy post right there.

Remember when Usopp tried to makeshift repairs to the Going Merry before they got Franky. Yeah, that hardly worked all that so well in the end

You need a properly trained carpenter who actually who knows what he is doing. Unlike Usopp's slipshod repair jobs.

Also good luck to any crew trying to navigate the perils of the Grand Line without a good navigator like Nami. Any ship would get sunk or damaged beyond pretty quickly without a navigator.

Plus a doctor is a vital member of any ships crew. Without Chopper, the crew could easily die of diseases or serious injuries without a trained medic.

Case in point, the Drum island arc where Nami nearly died due to a disease, without Chopper she would have died.

So saying that Chopper, Franky and Nami are not essential to the crew is pretty stupid when the manga clearly shows otherwise.

#51 Madara D Dragon

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 02:40 PM

Crappy post right there.

 

Did something hurt you to make you attack me personally?  :huh:

 

 

Remember when Usopp tried to makeshift repairs to the Going Merry before they got Franky. Yeah, that hardly worked all that so well in the end

You need a properly trained carpenter who actually who knows what he is doing. Unlike Usopp's slipshod repair jobs.

Also good luck to any crew trying to navigate the perils of the Grand Line without a good navigator like Nami. Any ship would get sunk or damaged beyond pretty quickly without a navigator.

Plus a doctor is a vital member of any ships crew. Without Chopper, the crew could easily die of diseases or serious injuries without a trained medic.

Case in point, the Drum island arc where Nami nearly died due to a disease, without Chopper she would have died.

 

 

I was trying to imitate people's stupid way of saying anything is useless just because you can survive without it, and exaggerated the usefulness thing in order to do that. What I mean is that if we get literal, not even those would be necessary per se, as the definition of necessary says: "incapable of being disregarded or neglected", so basically, you can't do X without it. You named a lot of situations where help was crucial, but the thing is, they went over all those situations without the doctor/carpenter being in their crew, right? So doesn't that prove they aren't necessary, but incredibly helpful? (in the sense that, you actually can go on without one of those in the crew, as it has been done in the manga, even if it would make it incredibly more difficult, that's the point I was trying to do). So yes, I was trying to show that if we go literal Sanji wouldn't be the only useless one. 

 

On the other hand, your not-as-shitty-as-mine post doesn't get the main idea of my post, which is that cooking isn't the only thing that makes Sanji useful, strength also does, because if strength isn't to be taken into account Zoro would be even more useless for the SH. Wich, in case you didn't get it, means Sanji is useful because of his strength (as even Luffy has stated before).


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#52 ddboy102

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 02:59 PM


Devil child- because she knows how to read

 

because they lied and claimed as a Child she sunk a bunch of ships.


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#53 Grimmjagger

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 08:00 PM

I was going to say how stupid sanji's nickname is but then I remembered zoros is stupider. All the SH really have bad nicknames.

Straw hat- something he wears
Pirate hunter- wasn't he just a bounty hunter? Did he only hunt pirates?.... as opposed to.... mountain bandits?
Black leg- the color of his pants
Cyborg- was awesome until we found out the WG has 100 cyborgs
Soul king- seeing as BM is the actual ruler of souls, it seems the same as calling east blue Zoro "sword king"
Devil child- because she knows how to read
Sniper king- never trust a man who gives himself a nickname
Cat burglar- not bad, but when was the last time she stole something?
Cotten candy lover- not even touching this one.


Guess it is subjective and I am sure I will soon hear how awesome black leg is. But they all seem lame compared to some titles. Pirate empress, cannibal, tryannt, heavenly demon,god, land destroying, fire fist.

I say they need new titles.

Oh don't worry it's not just Luffy's crew, "Red-haired Shanks".

 

 

Meh!!! Luffy just likes the chaos, besides Sanji is only indepensiable because Luffy refuses to eat anyone elses food not because they can't get another chef.

It's not easy to find a cook that kick ass at that, and by the way this argument could very well goes for all the SHs, we could have a new bounty hunter, we could have a new navigator and the list goes on.

 

 

Truthfullyy I can't see why people complain about Sanji's character and want him dead, obviusly after all thoses chapters those who still haven't been able to grasp Sanji and simply accept him, I aint saying they should love him but accept him are really going overboard with the hate thing because of his jokes, gags, emo and stuff.

 

Orihime was way worst in Bleach andyet she as way more popularity about it...hello? :huh:


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#54 ddboy102

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 11:38 PM


but accept him are really going overboard with the hate thing because of his jokes, gags, emo and stuff.

 

But the gags have ruined the character and interfered with the plot.

 

 

We don't need Sanji fawning over every woman every time of the day. 

 

and then we got that stupid nosebleed where everyone had to stop what they were doing to help lame ass Sanji.

 

Then there are things like him groping Nami's body(when he had his heart swapped) which is disgusting imo


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#55 Grimmjagger

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Posted 14 January 2017 - 05:59 PM

But the gags have ruined the character and interfered with the plot.

 

 

We don't need Sanji fawning over every woman every time of the day. 

 

and then we got that stupid nosebleed where everyone had to stop what they were doing to help lame ass Sanji.

 

Then there are things like him groping Nami's body(when he had his heart swapped) which is disgusting imo

ruined? not really, peoples just can't handle him and his developpements.


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#56 ddboy102

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Posted 14 January 2017 - 11:54 PM


can't handle him and his developpements.

 

how are people supposed to react to him gropping Nami without her permission? That digusting. '

 

The smooth guy who we all loved is no more. 


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#57 Sanji

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 02:45 AM

The only time when he ever did something like that was when he was forced to make use of that body as his own. Oda obviously considered that as different from assaulting Nami and gropping her, and the extent to which one agrees with that will change from person to person. He was the one experiencing being gropped, and if it's about him getting to know how it feels to hold her chest in her hands, i mean... he was already experiencing everything else her body felt at the time. Every single thing. Not that it was a smooth move or anything, but Sanji was never only a smooth guy. It was also meant to be a comedic moment, but we are now at a point where is fine to make use of race or religion in comedy and society finds that acceptable, but gender related stuff is the new big taboo.

 

Also, no one gives a fuck that Sanji was shown to be considerate towards Nami's health and was forcing himself not to smoke, before she gave her ok. That while Smoker did not give a fuck, walked around bare chested in Tashigi's body cuz that's his style, and cotinued to smoke like crazy. That was all fine though. He's not a fiend, not the real villain like Sanji here.


Edited by Sanji, 15 January 2017 - 03:02 AM.

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#58 ddboy102

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 04:54 AM

 I can't agree with you on that.

 

Yes, Sanji was the one feeling the group but that still was Nami's body and her propertly him being in it doesn't give him the right to do that.

 

Sanji also did fondle her breasts he even showed them to Brooke and Ussop and you could see Nami was upset about that.

 

 

Comedy or Not I think we can all agree someone who would do that without the concent of the other party is clearly a pervert.


Edited by ddboy102, 15 January 2017 - 05:12 AM.

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#59 Sanji

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 05:42 AM

  is clearly a pervert.

 

We can all agree that Sanji is a pervert.

 

But yeah, like i said, Sanji's the only one shown to be considerate towards the health of the person he's in the body of as he tried to abstain from smoking, or feel bad about the prospect of harming that body prior to taking action, when he had to dive after Kinemon's body, or before fighting those goons. The closest to that comes Nami, but she only felt remorse after she caused Sanji's body to be damaged by Caesar's explosion.

 

But that's not worth mentioning, this vile person got all excited about being in her body and dared touch her chest, which is the most heinous crimes of all. Sanji most definitely got to feel the after effects of Nami using his body, and like you said Nami never felt any physical sensation from Sanji's touch, but that's so much worse.

 

And yeah, Sanji raised her chest making that "we are Nami's" joke, but if we talk about exposure, Nami  usually walks around as naked as that out of her own accord.

 

Not that i'm arguing Sanji should have done that or should be praised for what he did. It's obviously something "naughty" and was played of as such. But some turn Sanji into human trash from that shit, and that's just way, way too much.


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#60 retroluffy13

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 10:01 AM

The only time when he ever did something like that was when he was forced to make use of that body as his own. Oda obviously considered that as different from assaulting Nami and gropping her, and the extent to which one agrees with that will change from person to person. He was the one experiencing being gropped, and if it's about him getting to know how it feels to hold her chest in her hands, i mean... he was already experiencing everything else her body felt at the time. Every single thing. Not that it was a smooth move or anything, but Sanji was never only a smooth guy. It was also meant to be a comedic moment, but we are now at a point where is fine to make use of race or religion in comedy and society finds that acceptable, but gender related stuff is the new big taboo.

 

Also, no one gives a fuck that Sanji was shown to be considerate towards Nami's health and was forcing himself not to smoke, before she gave her ok. That while Smoker did not give a fuck, walked around bare chested in Tashigi's body cuz that's his style, and cotinued to smoke like crazy. That was all fine though. He's not a fiend, not the real villain like Sanji here.

excuse me, but that's bullshit.  please don't enable oda to be so rapey by trying to defend a scene that was obviously done in horrid taste.  requardless of intention on odas part, it speaks to his ideals as to the fact that it was something that was ok in his eyes.

 

and since when has racism ever been ok?  from my standpoint, its one thing to make jokes that obviously aren't true and another thing to just straight up go around spouting hate speech because your a neo Nazi.

 

religion doesn't get to claim its on the same level as gender, race, or sexuality because those are all things people are born with while religion is just a life choice.  and on top of that, especially in term of Christianity, they look down on heathens with litteral disdain and see themselves as better legitimately because of they're beliefs when most of them are just outright inane.  so if someone wants to make fun of those dumbasses, let them.  its not like they ever showed even the slightest amount of respect for OTHERS beliefs, so why show them any?


Edited by retroluffy13, 15 January 2017 - 10:02 AM.

 this is a music video I made for a friend of mine.  give it a listen.  the visuals are pretty dope

Spoiler


also some ear kandy
Spoiler

when you love something..  and I mean. really love it.  you fight for it for as long as you can until you cant stand any longer.  then when its all said and done, walk away with a smile hoping you did right.





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