I have hesitation about that. Base Frieza was much stronger, yes. But above Mystic Gohan?
Well maybe not Base Frieza, but he definitely wasn't a match against Final Form Frieza.
No.. That's backwards.. Gohan was floored by Tagoma and Ginyu, in what you claim to be his Mystic form.. Then, transforms to SSJ and 2 shots Ginyu, declares himself the winner. SSG = SBG, Mystic > SSJ/SSJ2. Goku would never get his ass handed to him, in a more powerful state, still have the stamina to utilize said state, but instead choose to go to a less powerful state to win a fight when the more powerful state had no drawbacks. The only time any Saiyan chose to use a less powerful state was when SSJG(Grades) were introduced. When they utilized these grades they lost speed at the expense of power and as a result abandoned the idea entirely as it wasn't efficient. If Gohan cannot "handle" his "whole" aka Mystic(in your view which is actually wrong) power in his base body he has essentially lost it...... What's more is that SSJ actually puts more strain on his body than Mystic since it has the energy conservative property to it. Again I say, Mystic ascends beyond Gohan's SSJ forms in terms of power, it is NOT something that takes all his SSJ power and condences it into his base form.
Sure it may not be a transformation in the ways of visuals but it is something that requires the user to power up to it. So it's transformative in its properties/effects, the same way Kaioken was without the risk Kaioken had. "It requires the user's body to be able to handle the whole of his powers in just his base body(the Z Sword training helped with that)" Where did you get this sort of information? Mystic was NOT Gohan attaining his SSJ power in base.. Mystic ascended beyond his SSJ powers. We actually don't know that Gohan's body was at its peak. We don't know his peak potential because he stopped training.. For all we know Gohan could have been the first to hit SSG/SSB if he continued his training like Goku and Vegeta.
That isn't what i meant.
I what i meant was that Mystic form was a permanent base upgrade condenses ALL of his latent future potential, SSJ and beyond, into his base form.
Gohan getting SSG/SSB through just regular training is highly unlikely, one form is locked behind a ritual, and the other requires very specific training from someone familiar with God Ki, like Whis. At most he would get something similar to Trunks's SSJ Ikari, which is not the real thing.
There is also no proof he maintained his strength in BoG. In fact, there's evidence to the contrary..
How do you figure that?
In your argument, if you lose Mystic, you lose it in its entirety. In neither the BoG movie or BoG arc of Super was Gohan forced to go SSJ 1, he was still regarded as the strongest fighter there, and he even looks exactly the same as he was in late Buu Arc.
I disagree though I acknowledge it's vague enough to be interpreted both ways. Either way the insertion of the statement in its entirety is for hype purposes and at the end of the day the use of the word "might" in Gohan's statement lets us know he is potentially incorrect, as we saw when he went SSJ, two shot the guy, and declared the fight being over. Everyone has a current best but that doesn't mean ultimately it is the highest they are able to achieve in the grand scheme of things. In this particular show we never really know when a Saiyan is at their absolute best unless they continue training the entire time and we are able to see them live out the entirety of their lives till the story ends.
I wasn't just "might", Gohan says "I'm sure he's hiding power comparable to what i have when at my best." I would think if someone said "at my best", they really mean the highest they are able to achieve between the past until currently, not also into the future.
No, Piccolo and Jaco confirmed Tagoma's body was exerting more energy than he was previously.
Piccolo: "He's stronger than before!?"
Jaco: "I see. He's utilizing all of that Tagoma fellow's strength."
Piccolo's statement just allows us to know Ginyu is exerting more power than Tagoma was prior to the body change.
Jaco's statement says he believes Ginyu is not hiding power the way Tagoma was.
Let's not forget Ginyu himself said he wasn't yet used to the body and Gohan stated before the body change even happened that Tagoma was hiding his strength..
Ginyu said he wasn't used to the body, yet a few seconds later, was immediately able use all of it's power. Jaco himself stated "He's utilizing all of that Tagoma fellow's strength", not just more of it. That's more than what he was able to bring out of Goku's body on Namek.
Obviously, if he kept up with his training nothing would have changed.. That is the entire point LOL.. He could have maintained his fighting level or gotten even stronger, instead, he chose a route that ultimately made him WEAKER.. He's not Superman where he doesn't have to do a thing and still has the ability to do things.. He's closer to an actual human in the fact that if he doesn't keep up with something he will lose it..
Agree to disagree on this point, but i don't think Gohan lost Mystic entirely. Yes Gohan, to a certain extent got weaker, but not THAT weak.
Think of for example Vegeta's state versus Hit in the manga. He wasn't able to use 1/10th of his SSB power in that fight, which made it appear "weaker" than SSG Goku. Just because he wasn't able to use his full SSB power doesn't mean he instantly went back into Buu Arc SS2 power level.
Idk why you're talking about Frieza but I guess I can entertain the notion.. That is not guaranteed. If Gohan continued his training he could have been right where Vegeta and Goku were during Frieza's return. Hell he could have actually been stronger than them both as well. Dunno why you brought up Copy Vegeta and all those others examples but again my previous statements apply.
So you're saying if Gohan kept up with his "regular" training(not type of training Goku and Vegeta were doing), he would've of been stronger than not only both SSB Goku and Vegeta, but possibly even Golden Frieza?
That's almost more of a stretch than someone claiming SSJ Ikari Trunks was stronger Merged Zamasu, which is actually wrong, since he's not even stronger than SSR Black, but that's not even most absurd statements i've seen(see: Trunks > Vegito argument).
Wait, how does Tagoma being weaker than Cell Games Gohan make Piccolo more pathetic? Since when were you under the impression Piccolo could hang with Super Saiyans? Once everyone started turning into SSJ's, Piccolo became fodder.. Piccolo being this weak after years can and does make sense. Namekians are not really on the list of elite fighters. Are you forgetting Nail was their strongest? How exactly do you think he fairs against the majority of what we've seen in the show now? Piccolo has long reached his peak, his training isn't improving at this point it's maintaining. Piccolo doesn't have access to Zenkai boosts so he hits his ceiling the same way Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, aka all non-saiyans have. In fact the only reason he's where he is now is because he's fused with two other Namekians.
Obviously he can't hang with SS3/SSG/SSB Saiyans, but he did keep up and tanked some damage from a half exhausted Final Form Frost and almost would have won if not for being poisoned. That same Frost in Third Form/Assault Form put up a good fight against SBG Goku until he went SSJ. If Piccolo was still weaker than Imperfect Cell, than it would have been a easy one-shot.
Edited by JDG973, 23 February 2017 - 09:30 PM.