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[Miscellaneous] Official Volume Thread (Part 3)


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#221 TrolonoaZoro

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 12:31 PM

It's the lack of Zoro subplots.  

So since Impel Down the manga has just been overall plot shenanigans(3 thousand support chars no one cares about)exposition and the usual fight the big villain set up.

 

Without a parallel Zoro subplot that grounds the villains and the world it's just going through the motions that everyone expects to happen, making everything lack luster Essentially every arc is 2 dimentional. Which is why the big elephant arc is easily the best one since the time skip. 


Edited by TrolonoaZoro, 04 June 2018 - 12:33 PM.

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#222 Miss Coquine

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 02:53 PM

It's the lack of Zoro subplots.
So since Impel Down the manga has just been overall plot shenanigans(3 thousand support chars no one cares about)exposition and the usual fight the big villain set up.

Without a parallel Zoro subplot that grounds the villains and the world it's just going through the motions that everyone expects to happen, making everything lack luster Essentially every arc is 2 dimentional. Which is why the big elephant arc is easily the best one since the time skip.

No.
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#223 Enbima

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 03:57 PM

It's the lack of Zoro subplots.  
So since Impel Down the manga has just been overall plot shenanigans(3 thousand support chars no one cares about)exposition and the usual fight the big villain set up.
 
Without a parallel Zoro subplot that grounds the villains and the world it's just going through the motions that everyone expects to happen, making everything lack luster Essentially every arc is 2 dimentional. Which is why the big elephant arc is easily the best one since the time skip.

Yes.
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#224 TrolonoaZoro

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 04:59 PM

No.

No, but unironically. I mean it. 

 

Dressrosa was going somewhere with the blind samurai, but then he got one of the worse handling ive seen Oda do. And all because oda wasn't "ready" to follow an arc with him.  He just stands there for no conceivable reason. 

 

Compare that to the simplicity of adding another perceptive to the organization the mugiwaras fight. Kaku shows us the humanity of the cp9, Daz bone makes the Baroque Work an organization that respect efficiency. Ryuuma add a layer of mystic to the backstory behind the big balloon guy. (forgot his name) 

 

But what does Pica do? he's a gag character. Like a absolom or, the wolf guy. Their emotions don't go beyond 'im angry hurg" and "look at my special power xd"

 

And that's not even talking about power level. Dressrosa goes from "wow theyre mountain level" to Luffy elephant gunning stuff. And its just... not... quantifiable. It's almost like when you watch super man punch shit. Sometime he punches semi humans and they don't die, sometimes he punches complete monster and they don't die. It becomes insignificant at a certain point.


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#225 trafalgarlawisop

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 11:09 AM

Good comparison, both those manga started out awesome and got very bad.

However the difference is, i can pinpoint the exact moment AoT jumped the shark. I actually am a little lost where OP went off the rails..... alot of people say the ts is where it all changed, but i say it was before the ts that oda gave up on fights and focused more of story....maybe even post el.

 

I still enjoyed TB. Even tough most the straw hats did not have any individual fights Oda at least had the intelligence of giving them Oars as a common boss and they all had something to do and actually worked as a team. Not to mention the climax was intense as hell... It can't be dumber than spending half of an arc running away from a moving cloud...

 

The issue is that 9 straw hats is way too much and its a lot harder to juggle all of them and give them something to do.  I still think Franky and Brook were not mandatory for practical reasons. If Oda was better at drawing fights, and more efficient like the MCU he would be able to make all nine of them fight in an arc wether its big or small.

 

The fanbase definitely noticed a decrease in quality with DR where it was obviously too long, overcrowded, and a clusterfuck with no focus and pacing. For me, it was PH that I noticed a decline in quality.


Edited by trafalgarlawisop, 06 June 2018 - 11:32 AM.


#226 capu

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 05:25 AM


The fanbase definitely noticed a decrease in quality with DR where it was obviously too long, overcrowded, and a clusterfuck with no focus and pacing. For me, it was PH that I noticed a decline in quality.

The fanbase might but personally i disagree. Just like WCI, DR had a certain purpose Oda has in mind. One cant complain about a writer having an aim (empowering the SHs by getting them a fleet and consequently enlarging their fame) and sticking to fulfilling said aim. Manyfans only want fights and stupid clashing without background orreasoning for it. Oda created a manga in which several forces already introduced balance each other out. Moreover DD was presented to be the 2nd best villian in op to me (Croc is 1st). Of course the arc was long but it eventually was a preparation for Kaidou war as well as a link to the history and the structure of power within op world. Most other mangas i know of dont put such a big focus on a preparing for the main arcs. Oda did a glorious job to actually show us the power yonkous "underlings" possess and what the means to their very own power and influence. That Oda builds a world far more deep than the other mangas i read is one of the best things in op for me.


Edited by capu, 07 June 2018 - 05:27 AM.


#227 Fulmine

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 07:14 AM

Having an aim and how to reach it are two different things LOL


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#228 trafalgarlawisop

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 09:54 AM

The fanbase might but personally i disagree. Just like WCI, DR had a certain purpose Oda has in mind. One cant complain about a writer having an aim (empowering the SHs by getting them a fleet and consequently enlarging their fame) and sticking to fulfilling said aim. Manyfans only want fights and stupid clashing without background orreasoning for it. Oda created a manga in which several forces already introduced balance each other out. Moreover DD was presented to be the 2nd best villian in op to me (Croc is 1st). Of course the arc was long but it eventually was a preparation for Kaidou war as well as a link to the history and the structure of power within op world. Most other mangas i know of dont put such a big focus on a preparing for the main arcs. Oda did a glorious job to actually show us the power yonkous "underlings" possess and what the means to their very own power and influence. That Oda builds a world far more deep than the other mangas i read is one of the best things in op for me.

 

Ideas are not necessarily bad... How you tell them is even more important.

 

Pentotchecap on Reddit said it well

 

Dressrossa wasn't bad, but it just wasn't as good as people had hoped. I won't go into details, but a simple comparison is Alabasta. If you reread Alabasta you can see how good the story structure is. Everything moves forward at a gradually building pace as we get closer and closer to the Rebellion. We are slowly introduced to the conflict, we get used to Alabasta's culture and what is at stake, and everything just builds nicely as the strawhats move forward.

Dressrossa was very messy in comparison. It seemed like Oda was trying to do too many things with too many characters, and the biggest issue was that it was all IMMEDIATE. A million things happened in just a single day, and it was just too much all at once with a serious lack of focus. There was a lot of good stuff and a lot of bad stuff, and it was overall a very mixed arc.



#229 Fulmine

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 12:25 AM

LOL, the top 3 big brothers in Flambe's lists are Katakuri, Oven and Peros. ''Coincidentally'' the 3 least useless BM children.


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#230 capu

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 02:09 AM


Dressrossa was very messy in comparison. It seemed like Oda was trying to do too many things with too many characters, and the biggest issue was that it was all IMMEDIATE. A million things happened in just a single day, and it was just too much all at once with a serious lack of focus. There was a lot of good stuff and a lot of bad stuff, and it was overall a very mixed arc.

See that i exactly why i think Oda does a far better job than people give him credit for. The messyness is what makes it credible. All those straight forward mangas have started to bore me honestly. Unlike the others Oda actually understand what wars are and that they are messy! There is no i fight him and noone interferes  in a real battle among nations/factions. Instead several things happen simultanously which is what Oda understood. All other manga have lost credibility by remaining in a war state that actually may exist in a eyes of a child but an elder knows that such a presentation is rubbish therefore i am  very pleased that Oda does have many stories simultanously while others just like in Alabasta only show us like 20 people and then after their defeat all is miracously won. Thats so immensly unbelieveable that i dont like such authors anymore and Oda would have lost me as a reader had he remained on the standstill like so many other authors do. Instead he evolved and gets my respects for that. 

 

Of course the countless storylines make it more difficult to follow and make us think damn u i have lost the overall stories direction but u honestly wanna  tell me that i.e. in Wano  the SHs move in and get directly to Kaidou and his topbrass without thousands of people interfering beforehand and meddling with them the entire arc? I doubt u understand how much effort Wano will be even for Oda, who is arguebly the best author  when it comes to world building, andhow cramped with characters it will become. Honeslty i dont get why people wish to have lesser situtations, enemies, occurances etc.in the upcoming arcs, for me they simply think what is to come will be like what was, when we already know that even MF will be childsplay. Honeslty MF did not have all the allies and not even the SHs, u think with the SHs at MF it would not have been messy? Think of how often Oda would have needed to switch between them, and then start complaining, whether it would not have been cramped either. I truly have the impression that too many people just dont get which part in the story we have arrived at, it no longer is we stand against a small faction like CP9 and some fodder marines. It no longer is we stand against the 10 Baroque works agents, defeat them and all is won. No, it is we fight the EMPERORS of large and numerous nations, who themselfs are a power so great even the marines/WG are incapable of openly moving against them. U need to understand that the ones  that are to be fought are like China, Russia, USA and Europe as soloers vs the rest. None of those 4 can defeat the entire rest, but since all have atomic bombs (yonkou themsefls, perhaps calamities/commanders) the rest cant defeat them either, thats the powerbalance we actually have in our very own world, however sad that may be and whatever it says about us.   

Or maybe i am just far older than the average reader. But there comes a time when things need to be at least a bit different, i dont want to read the same sh*t every  arc. Zou was great with history, DR with history, structure/powerbalance, furthering the SHs fame through alies and DDs defeat, prepairing to enter the Kaidou/1st yonkou war. Such preparation was destined to take time, since it needed to be done thoroughly and while i too found it a very long arc, i cant say that it dissatisfied me.  

 

EDIT:

 

A very nice example is bleach. In the beginning it was great, epic fight scenes,funny characters. But since it completely lacked character development, as well as world building and change in focus in got me extremely bored after Aizen. I mean the fights remained exactly the same...always 1vs1...miracously always only a limited amount of enemies fitting the exact number of good guys we had....thats horrible writing and far too many mangakas stick to it....nothing really changed in bleach at all....no progress worthy of noting there. ANd since op aint having that huge flaw i like it best. 


Edited by capu, 08 June 2018 - 02:41 AM.

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#231 Fulmine

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 03:41 AM


it completely lacked character development, as well as world building

It doesn't LOL You can argue the writing is bad but the existence?


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#232 capu

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 03:59 AM

It doesn't LOL You can argue the writing is bad but the existence?

Ichigo may have slightly changed (but in all  honesty that change was pretty nonexistant, at least for me, the thoughts that led to his behavior already were introduced against zaraki, so i stand with my words) all other characters have nothing they changed at (except techs that is).

 

wait i may misunderstand u here.

what u mean by saying existance? 


Edited by capu, 08 June 2018 - 04:00 AM.


#233 Fulmine

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 04:09 AM

Ichigo may have slightly changed (but in all  honesty that change was pretty nonexistant, at least for me, the thoughts that led to his behavior already were introduced against zaraki, so i stand with my words) all other characters have nothing they changed at (except techs that is).

 

wait i may misunderstand u here.

what u mean by saying existance? 

...So you do know world building is there?

 

...and you don't read the zanpakutou part with Nimaiya, for example? Or you don't know what character development is?

 

Shouldn't have expected too much. Whatever, continue!


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#234 captain kidd

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 10:30 AM

Ideas are not necessarily bad... How you tell them is even more important.

Pentotchecap on Reddit said it well

Dressrossa wasn't bad, but it just wasn't as good as people had hoped. I won't go into details, but a simple comparison is Alabasta. If you reread Alabasta you can see how good the story structure is. Everything moves forward at a gradually building pace as we get closer and closer to the Rebellion. We are slowly introduced to the conflict, we get used to Alabasta's culture and what is at stake, and everything just builds nicely as the strawhats move forward.
Dressrossa was very messy in comparison. It seemed like Oda was trying to do too many things with too many characters, and the biggest issue was that it was all IMMEDIATE. A million things happened in just a single day, and it was just too much all at once with a serious lack of focus. There was a lot of good stuff and a lot of bad stuff, and it was overall a very mixed arc.


Well i cant agree with that.

I didnt mind the fast pace. I didnt even mind the over flow of characters. Everyone is quick to say oda is so formulaic every one of his arc follow the same pattern. Well... speeding that pattern up is at least a little better.
Seriosuly dr was alabasta 2.0 if oda wants it to be quicker and have a ton more pieces go ahead. And from what wano is shaping up to be.... if you guys hate a bunch of characters and sub plots ....well.... skip wano...

My problem was the minuta with the story.
1 flashbacks. It will always be flasbacks.... we got flashbacks for such stupid things... dds child hood...pinks wife... Rebecca... how dd took over dr...

2 lack of meaningful fights. We need feats or struggles from known characters. If we have unknown characters fighting unknown characters whos only feats are beating more unknown characters.... how am i supposed to take these characters seriously? Bartolomeo took a head of poison needles and laughed it off. Well.... was that attack really weak or is bartolomeo insanely strong? What about cavedish,he blitzed dellinger but didnt really defeat rebecca.... well? Is rebecca insanely fast? Well luffy effortlessly blitzed her.... so is dellinger insanely slow?
If we had these characters struggle in fights get hit a few times dodge a few times trade blows.. we would of had more serious and interesting fights. I am fine with a stomp here and there. Luffy vs bellamy was great, but it established bellamy as a non threat, so every DD crew member was a non threat? Even diamante...

3 the tournment...... i loved it. The 1st round being a stomp was perfect, 2nd round was a little long but the ending was so perfect. It angered be so much until i started to like bartolomeo 3rd was good, it was a good fight showing how powerful luffy has become defeating a "legend" but then..... but then..... oda took focuse from it, he stopped showing it. And round 4 was only shown breifly between the rest of the arc.... the finals, the part i was looking forward to even more then luffy vs dd, wasnt even shown......... i was furious, i wanted to see the nonsense that was going to happen, we didnt get to see the block finalists fight the dd family members.... why did oda propose such an awesome thing and destroy it. I cant name a manga with a tournment i didnt at least enjoy a little....oh wait...until now... oda made the first ever horrible tournment... all oda needed to do was do c and d block and the finals all the way through and this src would of been 10 times better. (Although d block would of really sucked, maybe only make it 1 chapter)

4 lack of drama- i have said it 100 times before fuji sabo or even maybe burgess could of ended the arc yet they waited for luffy to win.... i get why fuji waited but sabo and burgess could of possibly lost to dd. They should of been trying to get out the second the cage went up. I have already said how each of these powerful characters could of been written out. It could of been done easily in 1-2 pages per character.

So i dont blame the plot or the pacing or losing all the sh crew or even the addition of 100 side characters. I dont care i am smart enough to keep track of most of them... i just really dont like the above bullshit.
 
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#235 capu

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 09:42 AM


...So you do know world building is there?

U know that world building does not only include there only being more places...no wait u dont....should not have expected u to in the first place........

 

 


zanpakutou part with Nimaiya

lol  omg u  really consider  that short story world building? U obviously dont understand how  true connections are done, if u consider that crap noteworthy....but hey i knew beforehand...

 

Wanna know why? Because that dude came out of nowhere....never was he presented / introduced before in a thourough way, he simply came out of nowhere because he author was out of ideas.....

but ye of course for u thats world buidling lol, for others its simply pulling things out of ones as*

 

U know what  Oda does to the main  enemies? He  introduces them arcs before the actual arc they are in. He gives them Mangapages hundreds  of chaps beforehand and introduces us to their underlings before he simply throws them into the  story! Thats worldbuilding u fool!

 

Shanks was introduced at the very beginning! So roughly 900  chaps, Garp ~500ago, before he was already seen i.e. with Coby and helmeppo. The yonkou were introduced through garp at W7 again roughly 500 chaps ago, we saw BM only ~250-300(?) chaps later, the 2 missing adrmials we saw also more than 100 chaps after  the first! we still have not seen the full power of some shicki, we dont know the power of BB either....again intoduced already 600  chaps ago----- thats world building!

We got more thoroughly introduced to Kaidou by 3 SN, 1 shicki, and CC, who gave us hints of his plans! Bleach only gave us hints if the enemy was about to attack/be attacked----u call that world building....u  got no shame?


Edited by capu, 11 June 2018 - 09:57 AM.


#236 Fulmine

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 11:45 AM


U know that world building does not only include there only being more places

Never said that...now you read something else and took that as my post? O__O new level LOL

 


lol omg u really consider that short story world building?


...and you don't read the zanpakutou part with Nimaiya, for example? Or you don't know what character development is?

Bold: yep, classic capu doesn't read.

 

 


Wanna know why? Because that dude came out of nowhere....never was he presented / introduced before in a thourough way, he simply came out of nowhere because he author was out of ideas.....

but ye of course for u thats world buidling lol, for others its simply pulling things out of ones as*

Division zero is foreshadowed like hundred chapters ago...

 


Shanks was introduced at the very beginning! So roughly 900 chaps, Garp ~500ago, before he was already seen i.e. with Coby and helmeppo. The yonkou were introduced through garp at W7 again roughly 500 chaps ago, we saw BM only ~250-300(?) chaps later, the 2 missing adrmials we saw also more than 100 chaps after the first! we still have not seen the full power of some shicki, we dont know the power of BB either....again intoduced already 600 chaps ago----- thats world building!

We got more thoroughly introduced to Kaidou by 3 SN, 1 shicki, and CC, who gave us hints of his plans! Bleach only gave us hints if the enemy was about to attack/be attacked----u call that world building....u  got no shame?

And after talking big about world building you show you don't know what it is. I don't need to know Dresrosa 700 chapters beforehand to consider Oda's introduction of it world building. Worldbuilding is never about how long you have been foreshadowing something. It's about...building the world. Obviously badly written ones should be criticized but worldbuilding is still worldbuiding.

 

You got no shame you talk shit and still act high and mighty?

 

 

But of course, never expect capu to read and say ''I should have expected Fulmine to not go along with my stupidity''.


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#237 Fulmine

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 02:44 AM

Volume 90 cover

 

http://onepiece.wiki.../wiki/Volume_90

 

 

Leo is on it but not Sai. And Kaku and Stussy aren't, too, but fucking Carue is...and Sakura kingdom is nowhere to be seen.


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#238 Oben

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 04:21 AM

Looks ok. Not that exciting, but at least the layout is clean and it's not as cramped as it could've been.



#239 Miss Coquine

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 05:19 AM

Anyway can't wait for the stupid sbs questions and answers


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#240 captain kidd

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 07:50 AM

so i found this gem in SBS.....well it is the one after chapter 786

paraphrased

-oda how do you draw the perfect hourglass figure for op women?

-3 circles and an X, now remember if this is the only female body type you draw your female fans will send you many criticism, try to remain strong and dedicated.

 

 

hahahahahahaha I can give Oda shit all day but he is still one of the best in the game.


 
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