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[Miscellaneous] Official Volume Thread (Part 3)


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#41 Jekkusormi

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 01:10 AM

For some reason I didn't get a notification for this. Nearly missed it, haha.

Anw, it's not merely an assumption. I did give it logical thinking.

The lighter you are, the faster you move (under normal conditions). So less mass, more speed.
F=ma. Momentum=mv. So more mass and more speed, more force.
And the Kilo fruit manipulates what? Mass! So it can help you get more mass and more speed.
What is sanji's fighting style? One relies on his legs, and mobile/speedy is his middle name (okay, compared to Kizaru he may be meh but you get my point).

=> Sanji is fast to begin with, but with Kilo fruit he can decrease his mass in order to reach his best speed/acceleration possible, then when he hits someone he can increase his mass to the heaviest possible (10 tons IIRC) => with the biggest values for both accleration and mass, he would achieve the hardest hit possible because the force would be the strongest it can be.

And all of that is supported by in-universe rules (because it's a fantasy manga so real-life logic sometimes doesn't matter so you have to get the logic from the manga):
1. Brook shows lightness means high speed as well as being able to run on water (more mobility). And Oda just reinforced that in the SBS
2. When Crocodile was hit by Jozu, he commented ''that size and speed, he'll be trouble''. He said size but I think we can see how it relates to mass.
Also there's a reason Luffy combined Gear 2 and 3. G2 increases his speed, G3 increases his size=>mass.
Kizaru said speed is weight.
So yeah, F=ma or momentum=mv does exist in One Piece.


=> The Kilo fruit would be perfect for Sanji type of fighter. Well, you can always get more perfect so I'm not saying it's the optimal choice. The light fruit clearly is better, haha.

Kilo fruit might be nice but wouldn't Ton fruit be better since it also allows user to reduce own weight to nearly floating levels?

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#42 Fulmine

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 05:54 AM

Kilo fruit might be nice but wouldn't Ton fruit be better since it also allows user to reduce own weight to nearly floating levels?

I had the idea way before Dresrosa arc so...

 

It did? I don't remember when Machvise floating. Can 1 ton object float? Whereas the kilo fruit can do the same.


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#43 Jekkusormi

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 08:01 AM

I had the idea way before Dresrosa arc so...

It did? I don't remember when Machvise floating. Can 1 ton object float? Whereas the kilo fruit can do the same.

http://www.mangapand...ne-piece/735/13
In mangastream those letters read "float", same goes when I read that in finnish. Also anime showed it too but I'm not sure if anime refernces count here

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#44 captain kidd

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 08:45 AM

Heavier objects take more force to gain enough momentum to get into motion so Oda's comment about Franky is fine. If the race was downhill, Franky would move faster and if it was uphill it'd take more effort so he'd probably turn into a tank. I can't recall any moments from the manga were Franky was being fast but I suppose there might be some scenes of him running. Not to mention that Oda's logic also allows Brook to run on water because he's fast and light enough. So this line of logic fits in perfectly with that.

But franky has tank tracks he is more fit to travel distance then anyone.
 

I had the idea way before Dresrosa arc so...

It did? I don't remember when Machvise floating. Can 1 ton object float? Whereas the kilo fruit can do the same.


Ya it was literally the same fruit only better. And I am it talking same fruit like the shadow and would fruit. They were the same exact fruit in every way possible, only one allowed more weight.
 
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#45 Nintendocat

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 08:56 AM

But franky has tank tracks he is more fit to travel distance then anyone.


If you reread the SBS, it clearly says it's a short race so Zoro doesn't get lost. Also transformations aren't allowed since Chopper didn't use running point. And even if transformations were allowed, top speed for tanks is only about 25mph. Usain Bolt is clocked at 28mph so I'm pretty sure several strawhats can top that being fictional and all.
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#46 Fulmine

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 10:04 AM

http://www.mangapand...ne-piece/735/13
In mangastream those letters read "float", same goes when I read that in finnish. Also anime showed it too but I'm not sure if anime refernces count here

Which letters?

 

If it's true, I guess it's a bit better. It doesn't allow the user to decrease the weight so a minus


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#47 Enbima

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 10:20 AM

Does it really say 50m? Not 500m? The exaggeration has no end with Oda.


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#48 Grimmjagger

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 10:37 AM

Does it really say 50m? Not 500m? The exaggeration has no end with Oda.


No

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#49 captain kidd

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 12:19 PM

If you reread the SBS, it clearly says it's a short race so Zoro doesn't get lost. Also transformations aren't allowed since Chopper didn't use running point. And even if transformations were allowed, top speed for tanks is only about 25mph. Usain Bolt is clocked at 28mph so I'm pretty sure several strawhats can top that being fictional and all.


What? Didn't the quote say "chopper is higher becuse he can use walking point"

Also franky isn't a tank he has tank treads, look up the fastest treads can carry a 400lb guy and it will be a lot faster then they can carry a 60 ton Tank

Finally, I don't know where you got that tank fact, but the M1 Abrams (widely regarded as the best battle tank in the world) is capable of 30mps on uneven terrain and 45 on roads.
 
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#50 Nintendocat

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 12:31 PM

What? Didn't the quote say "chopper is higher becuse he can use walking point"

Also franky isn't a tank he has tank treads, look up the fastest treads can carry a 400lb guy and it will be a lot faster then they can carry a 60 ton Tank

Finally, I don't know where you got that tank fact, but the M1 Abrams (widely regarded as the best battle tank in the world) is capable of 30mps on uneven terrain and 45 on roads.


It says Chopper would be ranker higher if he used walking point so that means he was ranked on his regular form's speed instead.

Since, as I said, transformations aren't allowed then we're just just talking about Franky's regular legs which I don't recall seeing treads on. Do you have a source that shows them?

I googled tank top speed and that's what I got for it. Guess they did the average speed for tanks. Even then I'd still say that quite a few of the strawhats seem to be able to run faster than 45mph.

#51 captain kidd

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 12:41 PM

- Chopper would be ranked higher if he uses Walk Point. (another translation: Chopper is ranked high because he can use Walk Point)

Now I obviously am more inclined to believe the second translation. But this is interesting you believe the first one. Why?
Why wouldn't transformations be allowed?
And if transformations aren't allowed, what form is chopper stuck in?

1st Chopper, his base form, is walk point, that is what chopper was before he ate a fruit.
2nd, ok let's assume chopper isn't in walk point, what form do you honestly believe is is fast enough to beat zoro in a leg race? Brain point? Dig point? Guard point? Heavy point?
I think it is clear the correct translation is the second one, if not then you are telling me Oda intended chopper to put run zoro in brain point.


No one said transformations aren't allowed.

Wait you don't remember franky having treads on his legs? Chapter- law vs smoker page 2.... or somewhere around there....
 
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#52 Nintendocat

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 03:14 PM

- Chopper would be ranked higher if he uses Walk Point. (another translation: Chopper is ranked high because he can use Walk Point)

Now I obviously am more inclined to believe the second translation. But this is interesting you believe the first one. Why?
Why wouldn't transformations be allowed?
And if transformations aren't allowed, what form is chopper stuck in?

1st Chopper, his base form, is walk point, that is what chopper was before he ate a fruit.
2nd, ok let's assume chopper isn't in walk point, what form do you honestly believe is is fast enough to beat zoro in a leg race? Brain point? Dig point? Guard point? Heavy point?
I think it is clear the correct translation is the second one, if not then you are telling me Oda intended chopper to put run zoro in brain point.


No one said transformations aren't allowed.

Wait you don't remember franky having treads on his legs? Chapter- law vs smoker page 2.... or somewhere around there....


If you're going by the translation that says Chopper did use walking point then I would imagine that Oda could say that Franky could use tank mode if that was a factor. He didn't say that so that would mean we're supposed to consider him in his normal form.

And I'm not doing your job for you. If your defense is that Franky has treads on his regular legs that show him using them to move faster then you have to show it to prove your point. Until then, he just has regular movement which would require a lot of force to move his heavy weight which means it would take longer to get up to speed as physics dictates.

#53 Jekkusormi

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 03:00 AM

Which letters?

If it's true, I guess it's a bit better. It doesn't allow the user to decrease the weight so a minus

Those letters around Machvice in bottom mid panel.

In finnish translation those said "leijun" which roughly translates to "floaty" or "floating"

Edited by Jekkusormi, 05 May 2017 - 03:02 AM.

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#54 Fulmine

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 06:58 AM

Those letters around Machvice in bottom mid panel.

In finnish translation those said "leijun" which roughly translates to "floaty" or "floating"

Oh, I see. The one you linked is ''daiiin'' and the official Viz translation has that as ''dayeen'' whose meaning I have no idea about even after Googling. But the next page Franky did say he floated so I guess it doesn't matter.


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#55 captain kidd

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 07:39 AM

If you're going by the translation that says Chopper did use walking point then I would imagine that Oda could say that Franky could use tank mode if that was a factor. He didn't say that so that would mean we're supposed to consider him in his normal form.

And I'm not doing your job for you. If your defense is that Franky has treads on his regular legs that show him using them to move faster then you have to show it to prove your point. Until then, he just has regular movement which would require a lot of force to move his heavy weight which means it would take longer to get up to speed as physics dictates.


Doing my job for me? This is like me saying "WB has the quake fruit" it is common knowledge, franky has used his treads twice in the manga the fact you missed both times is something you should persoanlly be worried about and want to find out on your own. Ask any other op fan and they will either tell you I am right or they will have to go back and check..... I would normally link a page with a disputed quote or a hard to find scene, but something this basic, you might as well ask me to link a page proving zoro has a scar on his eye.


Ok if Oda didn't say chopper can use walking point. What is chopper using? What form do you think chopper is using to beat zoro in a foot race?

After you answer that question, why is he allowed that transformation but not walking point.
 
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#56 Jekkusormi

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 10:50 AM

Oh, I see. The one you linked is ''daiiin'' and the official Viz translation has that as ''dayeen'' whose meaning I have no idea about even after Googling. But the next page Franky did say he floated so I guess it doesn't matter.

Yeah I would have prefered your way. I'd like to have more diversity between Devil Fruits, not superiority.

Edited by Jekkusormi, 05 May 2017 - 10:50 AM.

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#57 Nintendocat

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 11:09 AM

Doing my job for me? This is like me saying "WB has the quake fruit" it is common knowledge, franky has used his treads twice in the manga the fact you missed both times is something you should persoanlly be worried about and want to find out on your own. Ask any other op fan and they will either tell you I am right or they will have to go back and check..... I would normally link a page with a disputed quote or a hard to find scene, but something this basic, you might as well ask me to link a page proving zoro has a scar on his eye.


Ok if Oda didn't say chopper can use walking point. What is chopper using? What form do you think chopper is using to beat zoro in a foot race?

After you answer that question, why is he allowed that ransformation but not walking point.

If I tell everyone that there is a rainbow unicorn that flies around the sun I can't just say prove me wrong, I'd have to prove that I'm right. If you base a point on one barely mentioned thing in the series then you have to back up your claim. I'm not scouring a 900 chapter series to prove or disprove your claim considering there's a high chance that your claim is completely false. The only thing I see on the wiki is what I was talking about where he turns his bottom half into a tank and neither moment he used that was used for speed, just carrying people. So again, show me an example of it being used for speed and I'll consider your point. When he first used Tank mode to carry the kids, he had to run away shortly after because of the marines and chose to run away on foot. Clearly Oda didn't design the element for speed.

And ok, I get your point about Chopper, I didn't see the added translation since I read the original on reddit before coming here and it didn't have that. I still say that Franky just ran with his normal legs since a) as I've pointed out, his tank mode is never shown being used for speed and b ) wouldn't that technically be a vehicle instead of a 'who is fastest'. Wouldn't that be liking saying you're faster than Usain Bolt and then showing up in a car? I'm sure Nami could get a higher rank if she competed with a motorcycle. Heck, if anything is allowed, why not just have Robin create a clone at the finish line. Clearly that would make her the fastest.

Edited by Nintendocat, 05 May 2017 - 11:15 AM.

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#58 captain kidd

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 11:20 AM

If I tell everyone that there is a rainbow unicorn that flies around the sun I can't just say prove me wrong, I'd have to prove that I'm right. If you base a point on one barely mentioned thing in the series then you have to back up your claim. I'm not scouring a 900 chapter series to prove or disprove your claim considering there's a high chance that your claim is completely false. The only thing I see on the wiki is what I was talking about where he turns his bottom half into a tank and neither moment he used that was used for speed, just carrying people. So again, show me an example of it being used for speed and I'll consider your point. Clearly Oda didn't design the element for speed.

And ok, I get your point about Chopper, I didn't see the added translation since I read the original on reddit before coming here and it didn't have that. I still say that Franky just ran with his normal legs since a) as I've pointed out, his tank mode is never shown being used for speed and b ) wouldn't that technically be a vehicle instead of a 'who is fastest'. Wouldn't that be liking saying you're faster than Usain Bolt and then showing up in a car? I'm sure Nami could get a higher rank if she competed with a motorcycle. Heck, if anything is allowed, why not just have Robin create a clone at the finish line. Clearly that would make her the fastest.


Well you didn't have to I told you the chapter it would of been simpler to find the law vs smoker chapter I told you about then it would to read the whole wikia.

But you are right now that I think about it they both were for carrying people, although he did use the tank to out run a store owner after he stole a burger. Either way they might not be faster then his normal feet.
 

Yeah I would have prefered your way. I'd like to have more diversity between Devil Fruits, not superiority.


I would like Oda not to have all weight fruit users jump above people then fall on them.....

I ranted about this many times in the past but dodging gravity has to be a simple feat.
 
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#59 Jekkusormi

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 12:40 PM

Well you didn't have to I told you the chapter it would of been simpler to find the law vs smoker chapter I told you about then it would to read the whole wikia.

But you are right now that I think about it they both were for carrying people, although he did use the tank to out run a store owner after he stole a burger. Either way they might not be faster then his normal feet.
 

I would like Oda not to have all weight fruit users jump above people then fall on them.....

I ranted about this many times in the past but dodging gravity has to be a simple feat.

For once I feel you. I'm also not a huge fan of Oda just reusing DFs. I mean if you use Kilo and Ton gruits, atleast make the users use them differently OR make the fruits different by other than just making the otherone superior to other one. Like making Kilo fruit to adjust weight between 1-10k kilos and Ton fruit just add weight up to Machvice limit (since I can't remember what it was)

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#60 captain kidd

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 02:19 PM

For once I feel you. I'm also not a huge fan of Oda just reusing DFs. I mean if you use Kilo and Ton gruits, atleast make the users use them differently OR make the fruits different by other than just making the otherone superior to other one. Like making Kilo fruit to adjust weight between 1-10k kilos and Ton fruit just add weight up to Machvice limit (since I can't remember what it was)


I thought the fruit was going to be able to adjust the weight of other objects. Which is why vice had that weird stone on his back, he wasn't adjusting his own weight he was adjusting he stone's weight.
Now that would still be almost the same as the kilo fruit but it would be used to fight an entirely different way. Instead of just landing on people he could lift up mountains by making them weigh a ton (which is light in op) then throw them and make them weigh 1 million tons.
 
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