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[Discussion] Marineford / Summit Battle Arc


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#21 Danny

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Posted 29 August 2016 - 09:33 AM

Lol did I just read Jozu is Stronger then DD? In what world? Thats insane logic. DD is the most complete fighter we've seen in OP to date. And jozu was stopped in his tracks by DD when attacking Croc. No problem. Now I doubt DD can control jozu's movements easily but he has a bevy of skills and attacks that Jozu as we know him right now can't truly defend against. I mean his best bet is to turn into a diamond and shell up. but that won't win him anything in a battle.

 

I also agree that DD > Luffy but G4 give Luffy the necessary power and sheer force needed to take DD out even at full strength. Question is can DD outlast G4 if he's fully healthy and Luffy receives no help? Imo yes he can but I'd like to see G4 a few more times before i can confidently proclaim that.

 

In a world where you pay the price when ignoring people with hax/powerful abilities. It doesn't have to mean Doffy>Jozu. Some say that it's Oda's way telling us Doffy>Jozu without them actually fighting. Maybe, maybe not  :shrug:

 

Doffy was > Luffy on Dressrosa, even with G4. By how much is debatable though. Remember that it's been a while since DR (weeks?) and Luffy is likely a bit stronger now. His G4 might be more powerful and he might be able to "last longer". So I think it's hard to tell how he compares to Doffy.



#22 Strobacaxi

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Posted 29 August 2016 - 09:57 AM


Remember that it's been a while since DR (weeks?)

About a week and a half IIRC

 

About Jozu and DD... It's my very biased opinion that Jozu might be stronger than DD. The only reason is, I don't think Jozu is weaker than any yonkou commander we've seen, and I don't think DD is stronger than any top commander we've seen. But I'm not basing this on feats, or anything. Just mere hype, bias and my interpretation of the story itself.


Edited by Strobacaxi, 29 August 2016 - 10:00 AM.

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#23 Danny

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Posted 29 August 2016 - 10:28 AM

About a week and a half IIRC

 

About Jozu and DD... It's my very biased opinion that Jozu might be stronger than DD. The only reason is, I don't think Jozu is weaker than any yonkou commander we've seen, and I don't think DD is stronger than any top commander we've seen. But I'm not basing this on feats, or anything. Just mere hype, bias and my interpretation of the story itself.

 

I see. Well, that's quite a lot of time. Luffy can be quite a bit stronger now and perhaps he's thought out some new stuff as well.

 

Out of curiousity. Do you include Ace and Vista when you say top commanders?



#24 ShinmenTakezo

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Posted 29 August 2016 - 11:01 AM

Jozu could not even come close to DD, what the hell are we talking about here? Normal strings were able to subdue him, what do you think DD could do with Awakening? The onyl reason Luffy got not fucked by DD´s awakening was because of G4´s top tier speed and maneuverability, a speed that is supposed to parallel this.


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#25 capu

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Posted 29 August 2016 - 11:21 AM

Not trying is not the same as not trying

 

It´s like saying DD controlling the VAs did not mean anything because he did not damage them when he was just casually playing around which is what he did in the war, he could not contain his excitement aobut being in the middle of a clash that decides the world´s future.

 

Dude, DD already hsowed he can easily cut someone who is logia, he can imbue his strings with Haki, as seen with Smoker.. Jsut like with Jozu, he never tried to kill Croc, it´s a conscious decision not to try it, he had no interest in harming him. It was a gesture of jealousy because Croc helped WB Pirates.

 

He said Brilliant Punk against Croc and could not even take out the guy who base Luffy beat.

 

Not really. Oda has established 3 main aspects to fighting skill within OP: Devil fruit or weapon, physical capabilities and now Haki. Each of them, if trained to the extreme, can make you stand out and strong. For example, just like Haki gives you the possibility to hit the real body of Logia users, it also gives you the ability to hit the real body of Paramecia users. Luffy´s rubber for example is not really relevant anymore if he is hit with Haki, prerequisite is if Luffy uses Haki as well, the other guy´s Haki has to be better or greater, whatever you wanan call it.

What? Is that an english proverb i dont get as a foreigner?

 

Come on we all know that most VA are not worth mentioning, so why even bother with those that r just a tad above fodder (special ones like Garp excluded naturally)? Thats like saying Mr.9 can be toyed with by current Luffy which is true of course but does in no way contribute to this discussion......

 

Sure DD can use haki (did i imply differently, i dont believe i did?), problem is everything indicates Jozus Haki>DDs (for UNLIKE DD Jozu has been SEEN to actually harm Logia users back then, which DD was not (and one of those was a freaking Admiral)! U say that DDs haki would be able to overcome Jozus haki+his fruits armor/defense and say he did not because he did not feel like it......Of course it is possible that it happended like that, but when talking about liklyhood ..... Imo Jozus haki enforced Diamond is not likely to be cut as easily as u imply, in fact if u recall he did not receive a single wound in the war, except the one which was resulting due to being frozen. Even Aokiji an admiral was unable to phsically harm Jozu, except for that one time which meant instant defeat, and only happended because Jozu was caught off guard. And ur argument with Smoker is also very vague since foremost Smoker =/= Jozu (neither have they ever clashed as far as i recall), consequently, as long as u cannot prove Smoker>=Jozu, that point too is not useful. And btw Smoker is nowhere near the league we r talking about, since he was easily handled by DD AND Law, while Law in turn was swiftly done by DD!

Furthermore i think ur misinterpreting how DD actually sees things, the more gleeful/happy DD is the more serious he actually is, as he himself proves here: http://mangasee.co/m...&index=1&page=9

Note: "I am so furious, all i can do is laugh", ergo even if he is smiling he still aint unattentive/lax.

 

Arguing for Luffy vs Croc really? First off plot armor! Secondly i wonder what all Enel-fans would have to say to that point.

 

So all in all ur arguementation still circles around the "assumption" that DD did not bother to try, which is a possiblity , granted, but imo an highly unlikely one, for DD does not strike me as suicidal as i.e. Kaidou actually is! 

 

Moreover i think u may overestimate DDs haki ability since even Law, who does not seem to be a haki master either, was able to defend against DDs strings, and Law does not have diamond defense as a body to shield him if the haki defense is overcome, neither is Law a (pure) physical fighter in generel, with its main attributes like tankyness and "power/force/strength"! And keep in mind that just because u r able to use haki , thus hit the "df-changed" body of a df user u still got to overcome his personal physical defense/tankyness as well as his skills as a fighter in generel. Just being able to hit someone does not garantee victory u need to be versatile. The admirals themselfs also were able to withstand being hit by haki, so why is the same not possible with Jozu? Why does DDs string fruit strike u as lethal enough to apply enough damage to take out a yonkous 3rd when even Law and Luffy could (while having to tagteam) withstand the strings?

 

 

To the last point:

Well perhaps i did not show what i meant by saying Oda has not been consistent, apologies. Just think of Kizarus light speed which Kuma apparently also is able to produce, even though he AINT light, and since nothing of existence in our world has lightspeed the inconsistence. Another example would be the Kilo-Kilo fruit, which in the end turned out to be more of a ton-ton fruit too, just with less tons....Ergo Oda does not go by the book when giving the speed of light to something that aint light, and of course lightspeed earth =/= lightspeed OP, not saying Kizaru actually going by lightspeed  would make op better, definately not, since well he would be far too overpowered then(>>>>>> everyone (well except Matter/gravity)).

 

Of course this is a very technical understanding of how things (dont) work in op, but well life's a ..... ;)

 

EDIT:

 

Jozu could not even come close to DD, what the hell are we talking about here? Normal strings were able to subdue him, what do you think DD could do with Awakening? The onyl reason Luffy got not fucked by DD´s awakening was because of G4´s top tier speed and maneuverability, a speed that is supposed to parallel this.

When was it stated that G4 was supposed to equal/parallel Kizarus speed?

Edited by capu, 29 August 2016 - 11:42 AM.


#26 Danny

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Posted 29 August 2016 - 11:29 AM

Jozu could not even come close to DD, what the hell are we talking about here? Normal strings were able to subdue him, what do you think DD could do with Awakening? The onyl reason Luffy got not fucked by DD´s awakening was because of G4´s top tier speed and maneuverability, a speed that is supposed to parallel this.

 

Jozu's speed was actually quite decent, but perhaps not enough, no. And sure, if Doffy takes to the sky, Jozu would have a hard time landing a hit. The awakened strings that a half dead Luffy was able to tank for while? Don't see any reason why they'd break through Jozu's hardened diamond body. Or any other string attacks for that matter. Doffy can subdue Jozu all he wants, but when has shown offense to make us believe it could break Jozu's defense? 


Edited by Danny, 29 August 2016 - 11:30 AM.

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#27 Madara D Dragon

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Posted 29 August 2016 - 11:38 AM

It's funny how a single pannel with DD blocking Jozu, where Jozu doesn't even look bothered (in fact he looks back more like "you'd better get the fuck out of here or I'll wipe you out") is interpreted as clearly DD>Jozu, while Jimbei punching Moria and actually making him at least feel pain doesn't prove Jimbei>Moria.

"One pannel is not enough to prove superiority... for the ones I want" :lol:
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#28 Strobacaxi

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Posted 29 August 2016 - 12:08 PM

I see. Well, that's quite a lot of time. Luffy can be quite a bit stronger now and perhaps he's thought out some new stuff as well.

 

Out of curiousity. Do you include Ace and Vista when you say top commanders?

Yeah, Luffy is stronger than he was in DR, he grows stronger after every island he visits, saiyan style

Ace yeah, Vista no

 

 

Jozu could not even come close to DD, what the hell are we talking about here? Normal strings were able to subdue him, what do you think DD could do with Awakening? The onyl reason Luffy got not fucked by DD´s awakening was because of G4´s top tier speed and maneuverability, a speed that is supposed to parallel this.

Stopping Jozu for a few seconds when he's not fighting you and doesn't seem interested in doing so isn't prove DD can subdue him. 

DD clearly doesn't have that top tier speed, and Luffy also didn't get fucked due to sheer power when he broke the strings several times, while Jozu has one of the greatest feats of strength in the manga.

 

Stopping Jozu doesn't matter, when we don't know if DD could even pierce Jozu's diamond+haki armor, or how many hits from Jozu he can tank.

 

DD is definitely on the same level as Jozu, I think he at least was weaker in MF because I think the story has been leading to the Yonkou commanders being the tools that make Zoro and Sanji reach G4 level.

 

 

Jozu's speed was actually quite decent, but perhaps not enough, no. And sure, if Doffy takes to the sky, Jozu would have a hard time landing a hit. The awakened strings that a half dead Luffy was able to tank for while? Don't see any reason why they'd break through Jozu's hardened diamond body. Or any other string attacks for that matter. Doffy can subdue Jozu all he wants, but when has shown offense to make us believe it could break Jozu's defense? 

Agreed. Maybe DD could beat Jozu because of match up, but they're clearly close in overall power


Edited by Strobacaxi, 29 August 2016 - 12:08 PM.

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#29 ShinmenTakezo

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Posted 29 August 2016 - 01:44 PM

 

What? Is that an english proverb i dont get as a foreigner?

 

Come on we all know that most VA are not worth mentioning, so why even bother with those that r just a tad above fodder (special ones like Garp excluded naturally)? Thats like saying Mr.9 can be toyed with by current Luffy which is true of course but does in no way contribute to this discussion......

 

Sure DD can use haki (did i imply differently, i dont believe i did?), problem is everything indicates Jozus Haki>DDs (for UNLIKE DD Jozu has been SEEN to actually harm Logia users back then, which DD was not (and one of those was a freaking Admiral)! U say that DDs haki would be able to overcome Jozus haki+his fruits armor/defense and say he did not because he did not feel like it......Of course it is possible that it happended like that, but when talking about liklyhood ..... Imo Jozus haki enforced Diamond is not likely to be cut as easily as u imply, in fact if u recall he did not receive a single wound in the war, except the one which was resulting due to being frozen. Even Aokiji an admiral was unable to phsically harm Jozu, except for that one time which meant instant defeat, and only happended because Jozu was caught off guard. And ur argument with Smoker is also very vague since foremost Smoker =/= Jozu (neither have they ever clashed as far as i recall), consequently, as long as u cannot prove Smoker>=Jozu, that point too is not useful. And btw Smoker is nowhere near the league we r talking about, since he was easily handled by DD AND Law, while Law in turn was swiftly done by DD!

Furthermore i think ur misinterpreting how DD actually sees things, the more gleeful/happy DD is the more serious he actually is, as he himself proves here: http://mangasee.co/m...&index=1&page=9

Note: "I am so furious, all i can do is laugh", ergo even if he is smiling he still aint unattentive/lax.

 

Arguing for Luffy vs Croc really? First off plot armor! Secondly i wonder what all Enel-fans would have to say to that point.

 

So all in all ur arguementation still circles around the "assumption" that DD did not bother to try, which is a possiblity , granted, but imo an highly unlikely one, for DD does not strike me as suicidal as i.e. Kaidou actually is! 

 

Moreover i think u may overestimate DDs haki ability since even Law, who does not seem to be a haki master either, was able to defend against DDs strings, and Law does not have diamond defense as a body to shield him if the haki defense is overcome, neither is Law a (pure) physical fighter in generel, with its main attributes like tankyness and "power/force/strength"! And keep in mind that just because u r able to use haki , thus hit the "df-changed" body of a df user u still got to overcome his personal physical defense/tankyness as well as his skills as a fighter in generel. Just being able to hit someone does not garantee victory u need to be versatile. The admirals themselfs also were able to withstand being hit by haki, so why is the same not possible with Jozu? Why does DDs string fruit strike u as lethal enough to apply enough damage to take out a yonkous 3rd when even Law and Luffy could (while having to tagteam) withstand the strings?

 

 

To the last point:

Well perhaps i did not show what i meant by saying Oda has not been consistent, apologies. Just think of Kizarus light speed which Kuma apparently also is able to produce, even though he AINT light, and since nothing of existence in our world has lightspeed the inconsistence. Another example would be the Kilo-Kilo fruit, which in the end turned out to be more of a ton-ton fruit too, just with less tons....Ergo Oda does not go by the book when giving the speed of light to something that aint light, and of course lightspeed earth =/= lightspeed OP, not saying Kizaru actually going by lightspeed  would make op better, definately not, since well he would be far too overpowered then(>>>>>> everyone (well except Matter/gravity)).

 

Of course this is a very technical understanding of how things (dont) work in op, but well life's a ..... ;)

 

EDIT:

 

When was it stated that G4 was supposed to equal/parallel Kizarus speed?

 

 

Something like that i guess

 

Yeah but your perception is already limited by "a Yonkou commander can not be controlled like that" , that´s why. You judge two panels that show the same thing differently because one shows VAs getting controlled by DD while other VAs got oneshotted by top tiers (not the ones DD controlled btw) and the other shows Jozu, and because the latter is a Yonkou commander, it can not be the same. Well, it can be if DD is that strong.

Aokiji freezing pre-Enies Lobby Luffy and freezing Jozu is not different either.

 

Why should it indicate that? You are not really making sense here. DD never tried to hurt Crocodile, the guy wanted to make him his subordinate and then played the jealous and betrayed partner while still smiling like an idiot. You think he can cut a huge leg like Oars in a split second but can not do the same to Crocodile?

And we do not know whether he could cut it or not but in the end that would be a match-up issue as well to be honest. DD´s strings are so hard that Zoro and Fuji could not cut it and had to stop the birdcage before reaching the citizens. I can´t compare the two but what i can compare is their feats and that makes DD clearly superior. Heck even subduing Jozu is enough and then you can constantly attack him until the attacks start to work.

And Aokiji never tried to hurt Jozu "physically", so that´s a completely baseless statement.

And no, the moment DD actually got serious, namely with Awakening, his facial expression was more like this but even then, a smile is not a smile. DD was clearly enjoying himself in the war, even to the extent that he himself admit he could not contain his excitement. In addition, we literally saw panels in which he casually talked with people he was supposed to attack and beat.

And regarding Jozu not even being bothered, you can see in these panels that he is trying to get out of the strings, indicated by the motion lines around his body. That´s why he is also sweating and has that huge vein pop out on his forehead.

 

Everythign is plot armor, everything is based on plot, this is not a battle arena, so no argument whatsoever. Enel fans are delusional, do not really care what they have to say B)

 

You are not suicidal if they only powers that could match yours or even surpass yours are top tier people. DD was casually enjoying himself in the war, he was excited at the thought of being in the centre of a battle that decides the fate of the entire world. He basically honors the namesake of Joker.

 

DD´s strings were able to breach Luffy´s haki ability which Cracker, whose CoA is supposed to be extraordinary, was not able to breach.

Because DD can use Awakening and can hold off anyone who has not the same speed and maneuverability as G4 which Jozu has not remotely shown.

 

Inconsistency is not the same as not following real world physics which is stupid to argue but still applies. Same with Luffy being immune to Enel´s lightning despite the fact that rubber can melt as well and such lightning having an immense amount of energy.

 

 

It´s the panels that are almost similar. It is implied that Kizaru´s speed is so immense that Drake can not even blink and only in the last second realizes what´s going on but at that point, it is obviously too late. It´s the same with G4, heck it is even against a much more powerful opponent and a greater distance. DD does not even move and Luffy suddenly pops up behind him despite being at a distance in which DD is just a small dot from Luffy´s point of view.


 

Jozu's speed was actually quite decent, but perhaps not enough, no. And sure, if Doffy takes to the sky, Jozu would have a hard time landing a hit. The awakened strings that a half dead Luffy was able to tank for while? Don't see any reason why they'd break through Jozu's hardened diamond body. Or any other string attacks for that matter. Doffy can subdue Jozu all he wants, but when has shown offense to make us believe it could break Jozu's defense? 

 

Tank is the wrong word considering they pierce right through Luffy´s CoA armor. And even DD´s normal strings were able to do that while Cracker, using a sword, was not able to for example.


 

It's funny how a single pannel with DD blocking Jozu, where Jozu doesn't even look bothered (in fact he looks back more like "you'd better get the fuck out of here or I'll wipe you out") is interpreted as clearly DD>Jozu, while Jimbei punching Moria and actually making him at least feel pain doesn't prove Jimbei>Moria.

"One pannel is not enough to prove superiority... for the ones I want" :lol:

 

You can see my answer to this above. Everything is in the panels, i can´t change it if you are not looking carefully.


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#30 Danny

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Posted 29 August 2016 - 03:38 PM


Tank is the wrong word considering they pierce right through Luffy´s CoA armor. And even DD´s normal strings were able to do that while Cracker, using a sword, was not able to for example.

 

Tank is the correct word actually. Look at the very page you linked. Doffy has launched his awakened strings, while we see Luffy hardening his abs. He blocks the first few hits in the first panel, a barrage in the second and then his CoA is dramatically broken in the third one.

 

Links to when Doffy broke Luffy's CoA with strings?


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#31 Petite Fleur

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Posted 29 August 2016 - 03:42 PM


Agreed. Maybe DD could beat Jozu because of match up, but they're clearly close in overall power

 

I'm not sure you could call it close if you can bind the guy with one hand, and execute him with the other, especially when you can brute force the strings, like Luffy did to get unbound.


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#32 Strobacaxi

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Posted 29 August 2016 - 03:56 PM

I'm not sure you could call it close if you can bind the guy with one hand, and execute him with the other, especially when you can brute force the strings, like Luffy did to get unbound.

Just because he held Jozu for a second when he wasn't fighting him and wasn't trying to fight him doesn't mean he can actually do it in a fight. Jozu didn't try to get unbound. Also, Mihawk didn't cut Jozu, how would DD?


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#33 Petite Fleur

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Posted 29 August 2016 - 05:14 PM


Also, Mihawk didn't cut Jozu, how would DD?

 

With an air strike, one of those couldn't even cut Das Bonez

 


Just because he held Jozu for a second when he wasn't fighting him and wasn't trying to fight him doesn't mean he can actually do it in a fight. Jozu didn't try to get unbound.

 

He held Jozu with zero effort, stopping the man in his tracks. You're talking on a casual level? This is Doflamingo's most basic casual.


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#34 Madara D Dragon

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Posted 29 August 2016 - 05:54 PM

I'm not sure you could call it close if you can bind the guy with one hand, and execute him with the other, especially when you can brute force the strings, like Luffy did to get unbound.

That's the main problem here imo.

1- He didn't bind Jozu. He stopped it as far as we know.

2-"He can execute with the other hand" is just an assumption. He can try, of course.

Before you feel attacked, this last point is not directed to you, but, I hate how there's people in this forum who love to use the "if it's not said by the freaking author himself nothing is proved, so we shouldn't even talk about it", and later on assume DD>Jozu because he stopped him when Jozu didn't even know he was the target, and we weren't given proof of him even trying to break free...

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#35 Petite Fleur

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Posted 29 August 2016 - 06:34 PM

That's the main problem here imo.

1- He didn't bind Jozu. He stopped it as far as we know.

2-"He can execute with the other hand" is just an assumption. He can try, of course.

Before you feel attacked, this last point is not directed to you, but, I hate how there's people in this forum who love to use the "if it's not said by the freaking author himself nothing is proved, so we shouldn't even talk about it", and later on assume DD>Jozu because he stopped him when Jozu didn't even know he was the target, and we weren't given proof of him even trying to break free...

Hey, I'm 100% about analyzing the details of the manga and not saying "the author didn't say anything so we don't know" cause, while lack of information is a thing, it doesn't disqualify conversation from happening.

 

He didn't bind Jozu for zero seconds, though, he bound him and had a chat with Crocodile.

 

And sure, it's true that he could try, but I'm judging from his ability to grab Jozu The Iceberg Thrower with one hand, that he's strong enough to hurt Jozu.


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#36 Strobacaxi

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Posted 30 August 2016 - 06:05 AM


And sure, it's true that he could try, but I'm judging from his ability to grab Jozu The Iceberg Thrower with one hand, that he's strong enough to hurt Jozu.

The fact that Jozu looked at him as if he's saying "Wtf you want man gtfo before I fuck you up" makes me think DD isn't capable of holding him. Jozu didn't care at all about DD. He was attacking Croc, because Croc was making damage to the WB pirates, DD wasn't, he just killed whoever attacked him.

 

Also, it's not about strength, as Mihawk showed. You can't pierce diamond with strength


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#37 Hurley Pirates

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Posted 30 August 2016 - 10:38 AM

Man if Jozu could break out of DD's strings easily he would have done so. Like Shinmen linked you can see him struggle to break free. He's is only freed once Croc uses his sand tornado and DD dodges releasing him.

Now idk if DD can break through Jozu's diamond, but if he can stop him mid bum rush so easily (whether Jozu was focused on him or not) tells me he can at minimum do it again. Now whether he can break through His diamond is another story. He could try to use his God thread to pinpoint to open spaces on Jozu's body that aren't diamond. He hasn't gone full diamond mode yet. (Although imo he should be able too)

DD's versatily would be advantage tho as he can fly around and launch powerful attached from a distance. Like Over Heat, Sacred bullets of the assassin, Thousand arrows and general awakening attacks. Idk if Jozu has the agility that Luffy had to dodge and maneuver to avoid damage.

I say DD takes it. If Jozu has some sort of awakening (which is likely) then he might swing the numbers back in his favor but even then I doubt it
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#38 Fulmine

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 10:49 AM


and we weren't given proof of him even trying to break free...

It's funny how a single pannel with DD blocking Jozu, where Jozu doesn't even look bothered (in fact he looks back more like "you'd better get the fuck out of here or I'll wipe you out") is interpreted as clearly DD>Jozu, while Jimbei punching Moria and actually making him at least feel pain doesn't prove Jimbei>Moria.

"One pannel is not enough to prove superiority... for the ones I want" :lol:

Are you blind or just clueless when it comes to manga visual cues? Another one after that ''manga must be told in chronological order'' huh?

It's funny how a guy with bulging vent and shaking body, something that for all intents and purposes in manga medium means a character is either angry or trying (can be something else but in Jozu's case that is it), couldn't break out of control for a whole conversation (not long but still several seconds) is comparable to a single instance of Moria's spitting blood. That's basically the same as Sanji and nobody questions DD>Sanji...you guys are just arguing based on ''prejudice''. Circular reasoning, in other words. Something Strobacaxi admitted that is just biased opinion and you should follow.

By your logic I can just link the double page where Luffy Kong gun DD without any context (read: what happened after that, something we are not shown in JinbevsMoria case) and shout ''hey Luffy one-shot DD. He's >>>DD'' LOL while in fact Luffy still lost and took lots of time later to achieve the win.

 

Sound logic and manga canon are not enough to prove superiority...unlike biased opinions and mere make-believe-ness. Nice to see birds of a feather flock together.

 


when Jozu didn't even know he was the target

LOLWUT?

DD was right in front of Jozu, was an enemy, and Jozu somehow totally ignored him and then couldn't do crap to get out. Exemplary stupidity and inferiority. That's totally different from Jinbe vs Moria.
Not sure what people are readng these days. How to NOT understand manga for dummies?

 

And Jozu's face is clearly angry, sure, but if he was really DAT boss, why not actually break out and fuck DD up for real? He couldn't, too bad. All of the ''fuck you up/wipe you out'' is just your own interpretation of his facial expression, your wishful thinking based on your pre-determined ''Yonkou Commanders can't be weaker than DD'', which is sadly meaningless, even if it's true, if action can't accompany intention. I mean Crocodile is clearly never scared of anyone. Does that attitude warrant his safety if fought Akainu? ...

 

 


2-"He can execute with the other hand" is just an assumption. He can try, of course.

What the hell did he do to Sanji? The guy even crouched and changed his posture when talking to Crocodile. That's as casual as it can get.

Inb4 ''I don't think Sanji is as strong as Jozu''. Well, since you are incapable of providing evidence, logic and can only rely on biased opinions and wanking hype, I won't tell you to provide evidence for Jozu>Sanji. Instead I will just say something super easy to understand: Sure, maybe when controlling Jozu DD has to use all of his arm's strength whereas when controlling Sanji his arm was more relaxed, but regardless the fact is his other hand and his whole body are still free to do other stuffs so he can attack Jozu, no question. He simply didn't, because he was talking to Crocodile.

 

Luffy proved that you could break out with sheer brute force and CoA, both of which Jozu has, Hell that's basically all his fighting style, besides a DF that just adds more on that. But Jozu couldn't no matter how he struggled. And the ''cover body with diamond'' option isn't available either because as shown with Baby 5 DD's threads can also hinder your DF control. So all in all Jozu is completely helpless. Sure, perhaps if we wait a few more minutes he might have broken out LOL, but in an actual fight DD wouldn't talk with Crocodile and wait for that.

 

 

 


Before you feel attacked, this last point is not directed to you, but, I hate how there's people in this forum who love to use the "if it's not said by the freaking author himself nothing is proved, so we shouldn't even talk about it", and later on assume DD>Jozu because he stopped him

Except that no one ever said that. What was said  is ''if it's not said or shown by the freaking author himself nothing is proved, so we should not talk about it like it's confirmed or take it for granted''.


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#39 Madara D Dragon

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 12:48 PM

Are you blind or just clueless when it comes to manga visual cues? Another one after that ''manga must be told in chronological order'' huh?

It's funny how a guy with bulging vent and shaking body, something that for all intents and purposes in manga medium means a character is either angry or trying (can be something else but in Jozu's case that is it), couldn't break out of control for a whole conversation (not long but still several seconds) is comparable to a single instance of Moria's spitting blood. That's basically the same as Sanji and nobody questions DD>Sanji...you guys are just arguing based on ''prejudice''. Circular reasoning, in other words. Something Strobacaxi admitted that is just biased opinion and you should follow.

By your logic I can just link the double page where Luffy Kong gun DD without any context (read: what happened after that, something we are not shown in JinbevsMoria case) and shout ''hey Luffy one-shot DD. He's >>>DD'' LOL while in fact Luffy still lost and took lots of time later to achieve the win.

 

Are you blind or just clueless when it comes to post reading? See the bold-> answer: Nope, I'm saying exactly the oposite. I'm saying we can't judge by one panel. Wrong choice there.

 

 

And Jozu's face is clearly angry, sure, but if he was really DAT boss, why not actually break out and fuck DD up for real? He couldn't, too bad.

 

 

He didn't = he couldn't. Alright, I'll take note. The guy who's all 'if it's not said or shown by the freaking author himself nothing is proved, so we should not talk about it like it's confirmed or take it for granted'' talks about it as being a fact...

 

 

 

your wishful thinking based on your pre-determined ''Yonkou Commanders can't be weaker than DD''

 

Nope, that's not my thinking. Please, stop lying about what others think...

 

What I'm saying is 1-That scene doesn't prove DD>Jozu, and together with that 2- Yonkou commanders can be stronger than DD. You get what that means, right? That means DD can be stronger than Jozu, sure, and he can be stronger than many or even all yonkou commanders, but there's no prove to it, and I'm laughing at the fact that some people here state it as if DD>Jozu was a fact, which it isn't. Now, please, again, don't just make up my opinion and use it against me... it's just stupid.

 

 

What the hell did he do to Sanji? The guy even crouched and changed his posture when talking to Crocodile. That's as casual as it can get.

Inb4 ''I don't think Sanji is as strong as Jozu''. Well, since you are incapable of providing evidence, logic and can only rely on biased opinions and wanking hype, I won't tell you to provide evidence for Jozu>Sanji. Instead I will just say something super easy to understand: Sure, maybe when controlling Jozu DD has to use all of his arm's strength whereas when controlling Sanji his arm was more relaxed, but regardless the fact is his other hand and his whole body are still free to do other stuffs so he can attack Jozu, no question. He simply didn't, because he was talking to Crocodile.

 

 

Wrong again, dude! Wow, this must be record of interpreting peoples posts in the wrong way! Congrats!

 

You explained to me how he can move, and use the second hand... Ok. What I said is -"He can execute with the other hand" is just an assumption - taking the word execute as in "punish by death", not as carrying out an action. I know he can move, I just said saying DD can execute (as in kill) Jozu with the other hand is just an assumption.

 

 

Except that no one ever said that. What was said  is ''if it's not said or shown by the freaking author himself nothing is proved, so we should not talk about it like it's confirmed or take it for granted''.

 

 

I was joking, exaggerating it... I thought you could see through it


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#40 Petite Fleur

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 04:19 PM

Do you guys think Urouge, being the lowest county Supernova at introduction, shows that all the Supernovas are around Yonkou Commander tier, or do you think Urouge is an exception?

 

 

The fact that Jozu looked at him as if he's saying "Wtf you want man gtfo before I fuck you up" makes me think DD isn't capable of holding him. Jozu didn't care at all about DD. He was attacking Croc, because Croc was making damage to the WB pirates, DD wasn't, he just killed whoever attacked him.

 

Also, it's not about strength, as Mihawk showed. You can't pierce diamond with strength

Like Hurley said, it was shown that Jozu was straining against the strings. Sure, maybe if he'd tried harder he could have escaped, but it's not like Doflamingo didn't bind him casually, and win at the casual game.


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