Jump to content


Photo

[Discussion] Marineford / Summit Battle Arc


  • Please log in to reply
79 replies to this topic

#41 Fulmine

Fulmine

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,501 posts

Posted 01 September 2016 - 07:49 AM


Are you blind or just clueless when it comes to post reading? See the bold-> answer: Nope, I'm saying exactly the oposite. I'm saying we can't judge by one panel. Wrong choice there.

Maybe you should ask yourself that question? I'm saying MoriavsJinbe panel and DDvsJozu panel are not the same thing and you're saying the opposite, yep. LOL

One panel or not is not the problem. The problem is what's on that panel...

 

Good at using Strawman as ever to dodge!

 

 


He didn't = he couldn't.

 

Alright, I'll take note. The guy who's all 'if it's not said or shown by the freaking author himself nothing is proved, so we should not talk about it like it's confirmed or take it for granted'' talks about it as being a fact...

Exactly and Jozu couldn't. In that amount of time.

 

And it's a fact Jozu couldn't. So we're back to my question: are you clueless about manga visual cues? Still dodge that, huh?

 

 


Nope, that's not my thinking. Please, stop lying about what others think...

Good. Then how about heed your own advice and stop lying about what I said like that ''if it's not said by the frwaking author...talk about it here''? FInally know how hypocritical you are?

 

 


1-That scene doesn't prove DD>Jozu

 

2- Yonkou commanders can be stronger than DD.

Except that that scene proves just that (it wouldn't if DD blindsided Jozu or if DD's ability was something different like but it's using threads to control puppets for Enel's sake LOL) and yeah, not only just that panel but also the one where DD broke out of Aokiji's ice while Jozu couldn't.

 

Sure. I even said that myself. Not Jozu though.

 

 


but there's no prove to it, and I'm laughing at the fact that some people here state it as if DD>Jozu was a fact, which it isn't.

There are. I wrote plenty of it but you just brushed it aside, of course.

 

 


Wrong again, dude! Wow, this must be record of interpreting peoples posts in the wrong way! Congrats!



You explained to me how he can move, and use the second hand... Ok. What I said is -"He can execute with the other hand" is just an assumption - taking the word execute as in "punish by death", not as carrying out an action. I know he can move, I just said saying DD can execute (as in kill) Jozu with the other hand is just an assumption.

Wow, this must be a record of Fulmine's being wrong to give people benefit of the doubt. Well,

Except that it isn't. We have been shown what kinds of things DD's threads can do. And Jozu is only like half-diamond (even less).

 

 


I was joking, exaggerating it... I thought you could see through it

No, that is just lying. Good job pretending though LOL


  • superfranky likes this

Spoiler Favorite male characters in manga/hwa/hua

#42 Leper

Leper

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 190 posts

Posted 07 September 2016 - 08:49 PM

And? even without his complete diamond form DD did NOT do damage vs Jozu! That clearly speaks for Jozu > DD than the other way around!

 

And u claim that he could not based on? His joking character? For even when he "took out" Moria he was enjoying himself, so u mean to say whenever he enjoys himself he aint serious? Well thats news for me.

 

Croc is known to be logia! DD being able to cut a logia (without doing damage!) is nothing to be proud of....so again what u wanna say?

Jozu on the other hand was capable to do damage (with unnamed attacks if he has named ones?) to both Aokji AND Croc! If u compare how the latter faired against DD and against Jozu, Jozu has the better image that comes out, since Jozu actually DID cause damage!

 

The problem i may have (and why i may be absolutely wrong in my comparison) is that Oda has not been consistent and thorough in his explanations when talking about the durability of materials in OP. if diamond (as the strongest "natural" material on earth) has indeed the same properties in opworld as in ours than i believe the fruit itself to be highly underestimated by most in generel, but as i said i could be the one absolutely misinterpreting Odas stand on diamond in op. If the latter is be the case i could agree with ur powerrelation, but since i dont believe that Oda would actually not give diamond the "credit" it deserves, i still as of now think Jozu (who also presented better haki skills at the war) > DD.

Come on dude. You can't just look at the damage and not take everything else into consideration. You wind up drawing the wrong conclusions that way. Unless, this is a clever parody of  the people who argue Admirals>Marco because Marco didn't do damage. In that case, bravo. Otherwise, If you only consider how much damage was done and ignore everything else, then based on that logic you would have to conclude Jozu,/Buggy/Vista>Mihawk since Mihawk did not do visible damage to any of them either. But that clearly doesn't make sense, since common sense tells you that Mihawk is clearly stronger than Buggy, probably stronger than Jozu, and definitely stronger than Vista(by virtue of being the WSS). So obviously there are more factors you have to consider. Like the fact that DD was able to completely immobilize Jozu with relative ease. Besides, wouldn't it be Jozu=DD, since Jozu didn't damage DD either? Or am I mistaken. I've never understood this reasoning. It exposes itself to too many counterexamples.



#43 captain kidd

captain kidd

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,555 posts

Posted 09 September 2016 - 09:31 AM

Unless, this is a clever parody of  the people who argue Admirals>Marco because Marco didn't do damage. 

 

Most people argue marco is weak because he was a complete non factor....

 

I mean..... akainu was weaker then WB but he still was able to wound WB twice..... same can be said for BB


 

I feel that some novas are better known for being crafty than physically powerful. Capone is playing the long game.

 

how so?

 

this is OP after all you can trick people as much as you want (usopp/ moria), but at the end of the day you have to punch someone in the face to win a battle.


 
captain "Nostradamus" kidd
banner.png
 

#44 Oben

Oben

    Disneyland was an Inside Job

  • Blessed by Uglypuff
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,555 posts

User's Awards

         2   

Posted 09 September 2016 - 09:51 AM

how so?

 

this is OP after all you can trick people as much as you want (usopp/ moria), but at the end of the day you have to punch someone in the face to win a battle.

 

Nah, on Alabasta for example, if Luffy hadn't appeared, Crocodile's plan would've carried out without him ever having to really fight at all. Being the laughing third after your opponents' battle is a thing in OP, Capone can (try to) pull a similar thing.


Edited by Oben, 09 September 2016 - 09:51 AM.


#45 captain kidd

captain kidd

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,555 posts

Posted 09 September 2016 - 10:56 AM

Nah, on Alabasta for example, if Luffy hadn't appeared, Crocodile's plan would've carried out without him ever having to really fight at all. Being the laughing third after your opponents' battle is a thing in OP, Capone can (try to) pull a similar thing.

 

I mean ya but lets be real, Crocodile could of taken over alabasta in a day if he wanted to, I mean he literally laughed off the strongest fighters in the kingdom. he only had at be so coy about it so the WG didn't notice what happend.


 
captain "Nostradamus" kidd
banner.png
 

#46 capu

capu

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 628 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 21 September 2016 - 11:26 AM

Come on dude. You can't just look at the damage and not take everything else into consideration.  

You wind up drawing the wrong conclusions that way.

 

Unless, this is a clever parody of  the people who argue Admirals>Marco because Marco didn't do damage. In that case, bravo. 

 

Otherwise, If you only consider how much damage was done and ignore everything else, then based on that logic you would have to conclude Jozu,/Buggy/Vista>Mihawk since Mihawk did not do visible damage to any of them either. But that clearly doesn't make sense, since common sense tells you that Mihawk is clearly stronger than Buggy, probably stronger than Jozu, and definitely stronger than Vista(by virtue of being the WSS).

 

So obviously there are more factors you have to consider. Like the fact that DD was able to completely immobilize Jozu with relative ease.

 

Besides, wouldn't it be Jozu=DD, since Jozu didn't damage DD either? Or am I mistaken. I've never understood this reasoning. It exposes itself to too many counterexamples.

I dont? Yet the examples i refered to could be countered by what i said, thats it.

 

Admirals most likely are > than Marco and? Perhaps not perhaps they r, still not part of this discussion so why bring it up?

 

Again useless example! Mihawk being catched of surprise by Buggys DF, which is a "natrual" counter has nothing to do with this!

 

Firstly so has Luffy secondly the big difference is and its already been said so often that i dont get why this is still debated: Unlike Luffy vs Doffy, Doffy intercepted in a fight, that did have nothing to do with him at all! Moreover why shoudl Jozu even consider fighting DD , their aim is Ace! Furthermore Jozu seems pretty ok with DD being there, there is not even concern, just surprise so what u wanna try to say? DD was able to intercept a fight between others? Congrats to that then.....Then the most important thing is that right after that Croc sends them away and since DD does not have control after Jozu the next time we see the latter he actually broke FREE! Dont tell me that Crocs sand freed him instead of Jozu when we have seen that strength can over the strings while we have not seen sand do so, so why r u all trying to establish Jozu, whos strenght arguable is still near/higher than  current luffys , who broke free in fact,  cant?????

 

Its still just 1 sec he immobilses him (1 page) so what the hell r u trying to highten DD for? And no it does not mean Jozu=DD. Since being unable to harm someone, which DD seems to be in that case does automatically put u below. Jozu has feats vs admirals no matter how low, DD does not at that point in time. 


Edited by capu, 21 September 2016 - 11:30 AM.


#47 Fulmine

Fulmine

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,501 posts

Posted 21 September 2016 - 11:44 AM


Moreover why shoudl Jozu even consider fighting DD , their aim is Ace

...You seriously just said that? To get to Ace they have to fight and clear the oppsition or anyone hindering, which is why Jozu attacked Crocodile to begin with cause Croc was causing trouble for WB side. DD was a Shichibukai helping Marines and WG fight WB and he stood right next to Croc and somehow you think Jozu shouldn't pay attention to him? Did you just prove Jozu is an idiot and not at all battle experienced like his status suggested?

 

 


Jozu seems pretty ok with DD being there, there is not even concern, just surprise so what u wanna try to say?

:o You're oblivious to manga visual cue or something? Surprise and concern aren't demonstrated by bulging vein and an angry face LOL And why the hell would Jozu be okay to DD's riding him? Normally you would think people would try to break out...and Jozu couldn't, not even a struggling shaking. Whereas Luffy could with G4.

 

 


Then the most important thing is that right after that Croc sends them away and since DD does not have control after Jozu the next time we see the latter he actually broke FREE!

Yeah, because Croc blasted DD away...you just said that...

 

 


Dont tell me that Crocs sand freed him instead of Jozu when we have seen that strength can over the strings while we have not seen sand do so

Yeah, G4's strength, not Jozu's strength.

 

We have not seen =/= it's impossible. And it doesn't have to be direct hit to the threads anw. The point is it made DD let go Jozu...

 

Plus DD stopped Jozu to talk with Croc. If Croc refused to and started a fight DD had no other reason to hold Jozu down anymore.

 

 


so why r u all trying to establish Jozu, whos strenght arguable is still near/higher than current luffys , who broke free in fact, cant?????

Arguable? Based on? Please no circular reasoning...


Spoiler Favorite male characters in manga/hwa/hua

#48 capu

capu

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 628 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 21 September 2016 - 01:54 PM

...You seriously just said that? To get to Ace they have to fight and clear the oppsition or anyone hindering, which is why Jozu attacked Crocodile to begin with cause Croc was causing trouble for WB side. DD was a Shichibukai helping Marines and WG fight WB and he stood right next to Croc and somehow you think Jozu shouldn't pay attention to him? Did you just prove Jozu is an idiot and not at all battle experienced like his status suggested?

 

 

:o You're oblivious to manga visual cue or something? Surprise and concern aren't demonstrated by bulging vein and an angry face LOL And why the hell would Jozu be okay to DD's riding him? Normally you would think people would try to break out...and Jozu couldn't, not even a struggling shaking. Whereas Luffy could with G4.

 

 

Yeah, because Croc blasted DD away...you just said that...

 

 

Yeah, G4's strength, not Jozu's strength.

 

We have not seen =/= it's impossible. And it doesn't have to be direct hit to the threads anw. The point is it made DD let go Jozu...

 

Plus DD stopped Jozu to talk with Croc. If Croc refused to and started a fight DD had no other reason to hold Jozu down anymore.

 

 

 

 

Arguable? Based on? Please no circular reasoning...

omg Fulmine again......typical....

Hindering ur main fighting force from being disturbed no matter how minor the disturbance is basic tatics! U prove u r somehow very biased. Since ur proposing that one has to know the position of EVERY fighter in a war with more than 100.000 man , yeah talk about ...... nothing would be best....By ur logic all high level fighter could never take a hit from anyone.....DD turned out of nowhere while Jozu was already in a battle that took his focus! Get that? Fighting high lvl caliber makes u focus that enemy (even if u are overall stronger) not all around u , since the slightest disturbance/moment of inattention leads to defeat, Croc has instant kill , which u seem to have forgotten ergo better focus the enemy in front of u since 1 touch mean death!

 

But by those marks in more than enough cases: "?!!" http://mangasee.co/m...index=1&page=16

Notice how on that page Jozu firstly does focus Croc, not someone/-thing else, noticing he has been entangled all he does is: "..." that signifies BOREDOM!!!!!, a MINOR DISTURBANCE, thus Jozu unlike what u always try to make it out to be is not even threatened by DD in the least! Not even using diamond and here comes an update for u: not becasue it is stupid but because DD just aint a threat to Jozu (since i actually deem DD powerful i believe him to have become stronger over the 2 years (just a tad not significantly))! 

 

Typical fulmine "logic".......

I wrote that as of now we only know of strength itself to be able to free oneself from DDs strings, then i follow by "asking/proposing" the likelyness of Jozu being freed from strings by:

A: Sand 

B: Jozus strength 

 

ur answer: it must be the sand , because sand is so strong.....lol ....and well disappointment coming up on my side here....croc blasted him away freed him..... sure......just like Enel is still a powerhouse, even though a rookie defeated him......  

 

 

And no NOT the sand free Jozu but he himself is far more likely that ur assumption, since sand =/= strength! Or u wanna say that sand cuts better than Laws sword with haki applied?

 

WOW what a feat DD was able to intercept someone by attacking and that one seriously just stopped talking and turned around as to know what bug might be tickling him and u call that a feat? Congrats.

 

 

His position.


Edited by capu, 21 September 2016 - 01:55 PM.

  • Strobacaxi likes this

#49 Fulmine

Fulmine

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,501 posts

Posted 22 September 2016 - 06:39 AM


omg Fulmine again......typical....

typical capu for bad reading and not having any logic?

 

 


Since ur proposing that one has to know the position of EVERY fighter in a war with more than 100.000 man

Except that I didn't. If you have to do Strawman to retort...so sad...

I said DD was next to Croc so Jozu must see him. Where the hell did I say Jozu should know everyone's position in the battle?

 

 


DD turned out of nowhere

No, he's next to Croc...

 

 


while Jozu was already in a battle that took his focus! Get that? Fighting high lvl caliber makes u focus that enemy (even if u are overall stronger) not all around u , since the slightest disturbance/moment of inattention leads to defeat, Croc has instant kill , which u seem to have forgotten ergo better focus the enemy in front of u since 1 touch mean death!

To the point you literally see nothing but the opponent? You mean like in Jozu's view only Crocodile is visible and everything else turns dark or something? :lol: Should Luffy and Law stop seeing Trebol because they so focused on DD or what?...

 

And Jozu could just stop charging...he sent Croc flying a fair distance. He could have just looked at the place and seen DD. So you just proved Jozu is an idiot with little battle experience. Good!

 

 


But by those marks in more than enough cases: "?!!" http://mangasee.co/m...index=1&page=16

And that can't be Croc's because...? Unless you still want to prove Jozu is an idiot. I'm fine with that.

 

 


Notice how on that page Jozu firstly does focus Croc, not someone/-thing else, noticing he has been entangled all he does is: "..." that signifies BOREDOM!!!!!, a MINOR DISTURBANCE,

Except that signifies a character has nothing to say. Good to see you're still oblivious to manga visual cues LOL

 

 

 


Not even using diamond

 

and here comes an update for u: not becasue it is stupid but because DD just aint a threat to Jozu (since i actually deem DD powerful i believe him to have become stronger over the 2 years (just a tad not significantly))!

He did. Your link showed it...DD could control others' DF control, too. You don't know? Wow...go read One Piece first, capu. Hint: Baby 5.

 

 

''I believe'' =/= ''I give no evidence but just like to say so otherwise my stance doesn't hold'' and you're just doing the latter. Don't just ''I believe''!!! Explain before you sneer me as typical Fulmine LOL And I will help you: There's nothing saying DD has gotten stronger. If anything it's weaker. He cut Oars' leg so easily pre-TS but post-TS he failed to cut some G-5 fodders LOL

And you still haven't explained how Jozu just let DD ride him. Okay, let say DD was not a threat, so? Jozu could have at least shrugged him off. Besides Jozu considered Crocodile a threat/nuisance for disturbing the WB side and continued pursuing him but not DD who is a Shichibukai helping WG fighting them? Are you high or what? Stop grasping at straw!

 

 


Typical fulmine "logic".......

I wrote that as of now we only know of strength itself to be able to free oneself from DDs strings, then i follow by "asking/proposing" the likelyness of Jozu being freed from strings by:

A: Sand

B: Jozus strength



ur answer: it must be the sand , because sand is so strong.....lol ....and well disappointment coming up on my side here....croc blasted him away freed him..... sure......just like Enel is still a powerhouse, even though a rookie defeated him......

You just said Croc is a high level opponent Jozu has to focus on but now you deem him too weak and compare him to Enel because both are defeated by rookie Luffy? Talk about contradicting yourself...Inb4 ''no, I mean Jozu has to be careful of Croc's instant kill only''. Wait, Jozu has CoA and diamond body...he could block it. Or maybe willpower now has water in it, too and Croc can dehydrate the CoA layer? Evidence please! :o

 

And yeah, it's strong. It's a freaking sand storm. Luffy didn't beat Croc sand storm. Luffy beat Croc's body because Croc just somehow forgot to use his DF (must be Oda's order) and engaged in h2h combat. Also MFCroc > AlabastaCroc.

 

Anw, stil Strawman? Where did I say sand's strength? I said Croc blasted DD away. DD. Not his threads. It means when DD dodged and moved away he canceled his control on Jozu. That's what ''let go'' means. Read! DD never had a thing to Jozu anw. He stopped him just to talk to Croc.

 

 

 


And no NOT the sand free Jozu but he himself is far more likely that ur assumption, since sand =/= strength!

 

Or u wanna say that sand cuts better than Laws sword with haki applied?

Speak English, dude!

 

Once again, I never said sand cut the threads. It's a sand storm LOL. Not Espada or Barchant...now you're blind to manga pages, too?

 

 


WOW what a feat DD was able to intercept someone by attacking and that one seriously just stopped talking and turned around as to know what bug might be tickling him and u call that a feat? Congrats.

DD didn't attack. He controlled. Haizzz...

 

Yeah, bug. Only that Jozu is too weak to break out, whether it's DD's threads or Aokiji's ice. DD did. Inb4 ''Jozu was caught off-guard''. Yeah, his left arm. DD even let Aokiji hit him. DD let a fucking Admiral-level fighter to get a free hit. Jozu couldn't even afford that. How poor!

 

 


His position.

So hype? Surprise, that isn't good logic. Position doesn't always tell power level. Buggy? Or WB has 16 Commanders and only Marco to Vista worth a dime. If you mean Cracker is seemingly equal to Luffy...well, we know nothing about BM's criteria for Commanders. For all we know Cracker is >> Jozu. As long as the collective strength of the crews are similar, the Yonkou can keep balance. For example, BM's 3 Sweet Commanders can be = WB's all 16 Commanders LOL

And Hell, we still don't know if Cracker and Luffy are truly equal. Luffy might have beaten him already.

 

And Luffy isn't in a Yonkou crew. Why the hell would Jozu's position mean Jozu is arguably near or higher than Luffy?

 

So basically you have no logic as always.


Spoiler Favorite male characters in manga/hwa/hua

#50 capu

capu

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 628 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 23 January 2017 - 12:17 PM

Oda made it very clear that being the strongest creature doesn't mean he is the strongest human...... when law said his title it was quickly said "he isn't even human?!?"

With the fact that last time he was mentioned he was called the "strongest pirate"

Making it twice Oda has skirted around the issue of new strongest man in the world. Meaning it is clearly not kiadou.

And it can't be argued, out of all the gods, Enel is undeniably the strongest.

No absolutely not! U r totally illogical here. 

It does not matter whether Kaidou himself is human or not, humans r creatures, thus kaidou being the strongest creature, as he was labelled, also makes him stronger than ANY human! An by the way the one who said that was either chooper or usoop iirc thus not really dependable, for firghtended like shit from everything, the scene just made clear who/how those 2 r nothing more!

 

Still u dont  get it, we saw kaidou it is clear he is human!! WB was just stronger in his lifetime thats why kaidous title only mattered AFTER WBs death! The reason that at MF war WB might not have been actually deserving his title is becuase of his sickness, the which extent noone else exactly knew about , since u dont say to ur enemy, hey attack me now, i am far weaker than i used to be, but silently pls, others still shall not know about it, otherwise they too would attack, but i want u to defeat me.......

 

and again. strongest pirate still is just part of being a creature, since a pirate also is human/creature, consequently it is fact that all we know so far (all beings we've been introduced to) still r within the strongest creature label for they r either fishmen/merfolk, animals, minks, humans, robots with human basis (kuma), giants, dwarfs, sky folks ect thus all fit the creature definition, since humans / animals / etc. r creatures!!!!!!

 

u mean out of all the false gods, thus simply out of people who have a complex, r so weak not so face the truth about themselfs, r so worthless that they need to constantly lie to themselfs, in order to makes themselfs feel better and r pretty worthless in current plot time powerwise, k.....if that is what u wish i will let u continue to prey to guys with complexes/weaknesses, no matter how stupid i believe that to be. 


Edited by capu, 23 January 2017 - 12:19 PM.


#51 captain kidd

captain kidd

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,555 posts

Posted 23 January 2017 - 01:09 PM

No absolutely not! U r totally illogical here.
It does not matter whether Kaidou himself is human or not, humans r creatures, thus kaidou being the strongest creature, as he was labelled, also makes him stronger than ANY human! An by the way the one who said that was either chooper or usoop iirc thus not really dependable, for firghtended like shit from everything, the scene just made clear who/how those 2 r nothing more!

Still u dont get it, we saw kaidou it is clear he is human!! WB was just stronger in his lifetime thats why kaidous title only mattered AFTER WBs death! The reason that at MF war WB might not have been actually deserving his title is becuase of his sickness, the which extent noone else exactly knew about , since u dont say to ur enemy, hey attack me now, i am far weaker than i used to be, but silently pls, others still shall not know about it, otherwise they too would attack, but i want u to defeat me.......

and again. strongest pirate still is just part of being a creature, since a pirate also is human/creature, consequently it is fact that all we know so far (all beings we've been introduced to) still r within the strongest creature label for they r either fishmen/merfolk, animals, minks, humans, robots with human basis (kuma), giants, dwarfs, sky folks ect thus all fit the creature definition, since humans / animals / etc. r creatures!!!!!!

u mean out of all the false gods, thus simply out of people who have a complex, r so weak not so face the truth about themselfs, r so worthless that they need to constantly lie to themselfs, in order to makes themselfs feel better and r pretty worthless in current plot time powerwise, k.....if that is what u wish i will let u continue to prey to guys with complexes/weaknesses, no matter how stupid i believe that to be.


If kiadou is the strongest person, how come shanks was able to stop him...... and appeared unharmed the next day....
 
captain "Nostradamus" kidd
banner.png
 

#52 Chillman

Chillman

    Shinigami

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,949 posts

Posted 23 January 2017 - 05:23 PM

If kiadou is the strongest person, how come shanks was able to stop him...... and appeared unharmed the next day....


How did Shanks survive Whitebeard?

#53 capu

capu

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 628 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 24 January 2017 - 05:11 AM

If kiadou is the strongest person, how come shanks was able to stop him...... and appeared unharmed the next day....

never was said to have been an all out fight, for all we know shanks could have tricked him by saying he has heard of something that could kill him

 

all that was said was that it was a clash, which makes it sound more like a minor training thing/sparring, or what WB and shanks had

 

moreover there was nothing to gain, could have been that shanks even convinced kaidou with "logic" : let WB have his way he deserves at least this much respect, perhaps that alone could convince kaidou, we dont know yet whether he too follows a code of honor like zoro, or how his character in generel actually is, all we know is that he is the most powerful creature out there (and again humans r creatures too) and that he wishes to kill himself, we have no clue as to how/what he pays his respects, or whether he even knows about the concept of respect, so all in all nearly everything about him is speculation, but the one thing we know (him being the strongest creature there is) oddly enough is the thing questioned by u, which kind of surprises me, even though u gave reasoning, which i hope i could make clear is very "biased/going against plot so far" knowledge.   



#54 Fulmine

Fulmine

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,501 posts

Posted 24 January 2017 - 06:54 AM


humans r creatures

But we don't know if IN ONE PIECE the term is used in the same way, do we?

 

 


we saw kaidou it is clear he is human!!

How? Judging a book by its cover? I don't remember we have seen his legs. He could have been a long-leg whose legs are chopped off a bit. Or if we have seen them and his legs are human-like, he could still be a half-giant-half-dwarf. Or he could be sky people (who are technically not human) whose wings, again, cut off. Or a completely new race.

 

 


WB was just stronger in his lifetime thats why kaidous title only mattered AFTER WBs death!

Then why wasn't WB's title WSCreature, too, if he was stronger than Kaidou and that human is counted among creature? Why was it only WSMan? On the other hand, why wasn't Kaidou's title simply WSMan just like WB?

 

The only explanation is:

-either man =/= creature IN ONE PIECE's terminology.

-WB was weaker than Kaidou pre-TS, which means Kaidou is the strongest overall of all creatures, and WB was only the strongest of human division (but DD said WB ruled in front of PK title which means Kaidou couldn't beat him and DD is Kaidou's partner so he may know a bit about Kaidou's strength which gives a bit of credence to his words. Not that I'm saying he must be right, mind you)

 

 

 


The reason that at MF war WB might not have been actually deserving his title is becuase of his sickness

He was already sick with a bunch of medical devices attached to him when he was first introduced with WSM title in the box. Ergo the sickness is counted. His sick self is WSM. You still don't understand that? I already corrected you many times. Inb4 ''why do I have to listen to you?''. No, not me. Manga canon and logic LOL

 

 


u mean out of all the false gods, thus simply out of people who have a complex, r so weak not so face the truth about themselfs, r so worthless that they need to constantly lie to themselfs, in order to makes themselfs feel better and r pretty worthless in current plot time powerwise, k.....if that is what u wish i will let u continue to prey to guys with complexes/weaknesses, no matter how stupid i believe that to be.

Guide to be a stupid hater.

 

What truth? Enel was indeed the strongest where he lives. He was stronger than Luffy (we all know what kind of advantages Luffy had) and those Blue Sea people who got there.

Lie? He never did to himself. Much less to feel better. His conviction is just unwavering. And it's never contradicted anw.

Current? Sure. That makes Mihawk, BB, Kaidou, Akainu worthless, too.


  • captain kidd likes this

Spoiler Favorite male characters in manga/hwa/hua

#55 capu

capu

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 628 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 24 January 2017 - 09:17 AM

But we don't know if IN ONE PIECE the term is used in the same way, do we?

 

How? Judging a book by its cover? I don't remember we have seen his legs. He could have been a long-leg whose legs are chopped off a bit. Or if we have seen them and his legs are human-like, he could still be a half-giant-half-dwarf. Or he could be sky people (who are technically not human) whose wings, again, cut off. Or a completely new race.

 

Then why wasn't WB's title WSCreature, too, if he was stronger than Kaidou and that human is counted among creature? Why was it only WSMan? On the other hand, why wasn't Kaidou's title simply WSMan just like WB?

The only explanation is:

-either man =/= creature IN ONE PIECE's terminology.

-WB was weaker than Kaidou pre-TS, which means Kaidou is the strongest overall of all creatures, and WB was only the strongest of human division (but DD said WB ruled in front of PK title which means Kaidou couldn't beat him and DD is Kaidou's partner so he may know a bit about Kaidou's strength which gives a bit of credence to his words. Not that I'm saying he must be right, mind you)

 

He was already sick with a bunch of medical devices attached to him when he was first introduced with WSM title in the box. Ergo the sickness is counted. His sick self is WSM. You still don't understand that?

 

I already corrected you many times. Inb4 ''why do I have to listen to you?''. No, not me. Manga canon and logic LOL

 

 

Guide to be a stupid hater.

 

What truth? Enel was indeed the strongest where he lives. He was stronger than Luffy (we all know what kind of advantages Luffy had) and those Blue Sea people who got there.

Lie? He never did to himself. Much less to feel better. His conviction is just unwavering. And it's never contradicted anw.

Current? Sure. That makes Mihawk, BB, Kaidou, Akainu worthless, too.

Not for sure agreed, but is it more unlikely than likely?

 

first off iirc we have seen his entire body when he jumped off the cloud, and afterwards, with the cloud part it was in shade though, so u might be right

secondly even the skypeople were still humans were they not, just with wings  :shrug: did they not say so themselfs? am not sure here, but somehow i think they referred to themselfs as humans, just with humans from the sky, as they referred to people from the blue seas as such.

giant and dwarfs also were counted as humans iirc the action house. they were depicted as different/rarer, therefore the higher prices, but in my memory they were still counted as humans, but at least it was NEVER stated that they r certainly not humans, that much i am sure of.

 

this was what i actuallly wanted to say, WB at MF arc no longer the strongest of all the living things in op, seem to have been unclear on that one sry and i dont see any problem to that, WB was in fact before his sickness the strongest of all including kaidou, but in MFwar when his sickness affected him so much that he could not do former easy things like forsee attacks much like marco stated , he was no longer the strongest of all things, just the strongest human, while kaidou despite being human, is counted as a creature because of a highly likely zoan-df, thus the creature part, or because (if i am wrong with the giant/dwarf stuff) he is (half-)giant

 

again how were all the others supposed to know about his actual power lvl? i was answering to that before he sure as hell does not go around saying yes i am weakended i might not be the strongest of all anymore, so come now or i might get good again..... ergo the marines not knowing how far the scale of wbs power has decreases would still label him as the strongest! 

and what the hell does it even matter wb is dead! as long as there is noone we know of who has that title now, the most significant title we have to work with is kaidous! and basing ur stand on the fact that the HIGHLY unlikely definition of creatures in op does not include humans is just strange! perhaps kaidou did only get that title AFTER WBs death? perhaps Oda did not want to do the same thing again, perhaps even to honor the one who previously held that title? (granted speculation) these few possiblities show that there r more reasonings plausible than u r willing to accept here.

 

dude again ur attitude....out of nowhere..........

 

........wow is this ur logic or just fulmine in generel? 

 

bolded: how so?

and by the way god actually is defined as the allmighty (western civilisation at least), thus its impossible to defeat him, i dont know what ur definition is , but mine actually deserves to be called that, ergo someone thats defeated cant be god, unless he wants to be defeated, which enel clearly did not!

and u still dont get it, enel was indeed defeated by luffy, ergo he was NOT the strongest overall there, for if he were he would not have been defeated by a rookie, who was there! luffy was entirely useless powerwise when compared to actual powerhouses of the NW just enel claiming to be a god, when he actually is fodder compared to whats actually truth does not make it better, just because he is dumb, becuase of lacking knowledge, does not make it better, just because someone never leaves his room, claiming to himself that he is a god, still does not make him an acutal god outside of his tiny box! 

 

One more thing u should consider about gaints/dwarfs being humans, even the minks consider themselfs to be the same as humans just with furr!


Edited by capu, 24 January 2017 - 09:41 AM.


#56 captain kidd

captain kidd

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,555 posts

Posted 24 January 2017 - 09:51 AM

How did Shanks survive Whitebeard?


They are both reasonable people probably talked it out.

Kiadou on the other hand has been portrayed as an uncontrollable beast who easily switched his rage onto other people who annoy him.

Kiadou is not the person who would talk things out
 

Not for sure agreed, but is it more unlikely than likely?

first off iirc we have seen his entire body when he jumped off the cloud, and afterwards, with the cloud part it was in shade though, so u might be right
secondly even the skypeople were still humans were they not, just with wings :shrug: did they not say so themselfs? am not sure here, but somehow i think they referred to themselfs as humans, just with humans from the sky, as they referred to people from the blue seas as such.
giant and dwarfs also were counted as humans iirc the action house. they were depicted as different/rarer, therefore the higher prices, but in my memory they were still counted as humans, but at least it was NEVER stated that they r certainly not humans, that much i am sure of.

this was what i actuallly wanted to say, WB at MF arc no longer the strongest of all the living things in op, seem to have been unclear on that one sry and i dont see any problem to that, WB was in fact before his sickness the strongest of all including kaidou, but in MFwar when his sickness affected him so much that he could not do former easy things like forsee attacks much like marco stated , he was no longer the strongest of all things, just the strongest human, while kaidou despite being human, is counted as a creature because of a highly likely zoan-df, thus the creature part, or because (if i am wrong with the giant/dwarf stuff) he is (half-)giant

again how were all the others supposed to know about his actual power lvl? i was answering to that before he sure as hell does not go around saying yes i am weakended i might not be the strongest of all anymore, so come now or i might get good again..... ergo the marines not knowing how far the scale of wbs power has decreases would still label him as the strongest!
and what the hell does it even matter wb is dead! as long as there is noone we know of who has that title now, the most significant title we have to work with is kaidous! and basing ur stand on the fact that the HIGHLY unlikely definition of creatures in op does not include humans is just strange! perhaps kaidou did only get that title AFTER WBs death? perhaps Oda did not want to do the same thing again, perhaps even to honor the one who previously held that title? (granted speculation) these few possiblities show that there r more reasonings plausible than u r willing to accept here.

dude again ur attitude....out of nowhere..........

ohh man u really are sad and lonely are u not, get some friends honeslty...

bolded: how so?
and by the way god actually is defined as the allmighty (western civilisation at least), thus its impossible to defeat him, i dont know what ur definition is , but mine actually deserves to be called that, ergo someone thats defeated cant be god, unless he wants to be defeated, which enel clearly did not!
and u still dont get it, enel was indeed defeated by luffy, ergo he was NOT the strongest overall there, for if he were he would not have been defeated by a rookie, who was there! luffy was entirely useless powerwise when compared to actual powerhouses of the NW just enel claiming to be a god, when he actually is fodder compared to whats actually truth does not make it better, just because he is dumb, becuase of lacking knowledge, does not make it better, just because someone never leaves his room, claiming to himself that he is a god, still does not make him an acutal god outside of his tiny box!


Hahahahahahaa I love the logic of your last post "he was not the strongest because he was defeated" this is good sound logic. This means when dd was defeated luffy was actually the strongest on DR. Good because I don't like explaining why dd isn't admiral level and that is a much simpler way to discredit him. Similarity when WB was defeated by BB's gun it proves WB wasn't the strongest BB's gun was.
And in ID Magellan defeated BB proving Magellan is the strongest. So Magellan is actually the strongest character in the entire manga......sound logic.

There is a difference between the winner and the stronger.


What? No that is insane WB was the strongest and he died the strongest. Just because he was sick doesn't mean a thing if he still holds the title of strongest. If a sick old man who is a shadow of his former self is still able to beat up and child who wants to take his title then he is still the strongest.... sorry that is how things work.....



And Enel is useless? Enel destroyed an island. You know who else tried to destroy an island, BB and WB, they both failed. What is so hard to see about the fact that luffy only won because he was rubber? Oda even said in an SBS "luffy was lucky to be rubber" Oda did something you clearly missed. Oda set wiper up to be luffy's equal in every way except he didn't have a rubber body. After Enel was done joking around he fodderized wiped in a single shot. That is how easily luffy would of been taken care of if he wasn't immune.
This is as stupid as saying buggy is stronger then mihawk.
 
captain "Nostradamus" kidd
banner.png
 

#57 Fulmine

Fulmine

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,501 posts

Posted 24 January 2017 - 10:05 AM


Not for sure agreed, but is it more unlikely than likely?

It's just ''we don't know''. 50/50. Where is the evidence/hint to prefer one over another? None! It's a fantasy world. Oda could have made the word red means the color green in this world if he wants.

 

 


first off iirc we have seen his entire body when he jumped off the cloud

shadowed.

 

 


secondly even the skypeople were still humans were they not, just with wings :shrug: did they not say so themselfs? am not sure here, but somehow i think they referred to themselfs as humans, just with humans from the sky, as they referred to people from the blue seas as such.

Well, that's a big difference already. How about saying mermaid are still human, just with fish lower body and ability to breath underwater? Seriously...

 

What they refer to themselves is irrelevant if there's nothing backing that up. And it's more like they are saying that in a social sense. We're talking biological terminology, about races, not social stuffs. Yes, they look like human, just with wings, and the way they live, talk aren't that different. But that doesn't mean they are suddenly the same race as human.

 

 


giant and dwarfs also were counted as humans iirc the action house. they were depicted as different/rarer, therefore the higher prices, but in my memory they were still counted as humans, but at least it was NEVER stated that they r certainly not humans, that much i am sure of.

Link, please? And assuming the guy at auction house knows what he's talking about. He's most probably not the one giving Kaidou and WB their titles...

 

But, well, this is like calling tiger and lion the same species just because they are both big cats...

 

 

 


this was what i actuallly wanted to say, WB at MF arc no longer the strongest of all the living things in op, seem to have been unclear on that one sry and i dont see any problem to that, WB was in fact before his sickness the strongest of all including kaidou, but in MFwar when his sickness affected him so much that he could not do former easy things like forsee attacks much like marco stated , he was no longer the strongest of all things, just the strongest human, while kaidou despite being human, is counted as a creature because of a highly likely zoan-df, thus the creature part, or because (if i am wrong with the giant/dwarf stuff) he is (half-)giant

So you mean

-WB originally was called WSCreature

-But then he got demoted to WSMan.

-Kaidou was originally WSX (X being the animal his Zoan is)

-But since WB was demoted, Kaidou got promoted and is called WSCreature now?

 

2 problems with that:

- Who keeps track of this title thing? WB, if DD was right, ruled the sea until his death so he never lost so why did people demote him and promote Kaidou? I said again, he was WSMan the moment he was introduced, not just in MFWar so you can forget about ''his sickness'' excuse. Ergo, if human is creature, WB's title should have been WSCreature.

-Having a Zoan doesn't make Kaidou not human. Just a Zoan DF user. It's not like his race actually changes...

 

 

 


again how were all the others supposed to know about his actual power lvl? i was answering to that before he sure as hell does not go around saying yes i am weakended i might not be the strongest of all anymore, so come now or i might get good again..... ergo the marines not knowing how far the scale of wbs power has decreases would still label him as the strongest!

It's not the Marines, though. It's Oda's omnipotent word in a box. Unless even that is to be doubted (though I have to say Mihawk kinda makes me want to doubt it LOL)

 

 

 


and what the hell does it even matter wb is dead! as long as there is noone we know of who has that title now, the most significant title we have to work with is kaidous! and basing ur stand on the fact that the HIGHLY unlikely definition of creatures in op does not include humans is just strange! perhaps kaidou did only get that title AFTER WBs death? perhaps Oda did not want to do the same thing again, perhaps even to honor the one who previously held that title? (granted speculation) these few possiblities show that there r more reasonings plausible than u r willing to accept here.

Since when did you get to decide it's highly unlikely? You're using your real world standard and applying it to a fantasy world without any hint whatsoever in the manga that it can be done? That's stupid. Fantasy world can have men gives birth, cat breeds dog or whatever the hell the author wants.

 

WB being dead has no bearing. The logic behind his title remains.

 

And I addressed exactly just that: if Kaidou's title was given due to WB's death, then why isn't Kaidou's WSMan if he's human like you said or why wasn't WB's title WSCreature when he was stronger than Kaidou? All of this under a bigger premise that is human is counted as creature.

 

Honor? So when Zolo beat Mihawk should he be called WS3-sword-styleSwordsman instead of just WSSwordsman?

 

Oda did not want to do the same thing? Fair enough but that out-universe. We're doing in-verse. Of course, the author can contradict himself. After all who cares if the story is inconsistent, Oda certainly doesn't and One Piece is the best-selling manga but that's not debating with reasoning anymore. Just an ''anything goes'' be-all-end-all logic.

 

 

 


dude again ur attitude....out of nowhere..........

There's no attitude. I just said what I thought. Matter-of-fact-ish.

 

 


bolded: how so?

Because they are not doing anything in the current arc: Whole Cake Island...

 

 


and by the way god actually is defined as the allmighty, thus its impossible to defeat him, i dont know what ur definition is , but mine actually deserves to be called that, ergo someone thats defeated cant be god, unless he wants to be defeated, which enel clearly did not!

Neither your or my definition matters. What matters is One Piece's definition. Besides, I never aid anything about your not calling Enel-sama God. I was attacking all those accusation you made. Whether you think he's God is unimportant.

 

 


and u still dont get it, enel was indeed defeated by luffy, ergo he was NOT the strongest overall there, for if he were he would not have been defeated by a rookie, who was there! luffy was entirely useless powerwise when compared to actual powerhouses of the NW

Luffy has immensely advantageous match-up. Imagine a kid who is immune to all physical attacks and heat and even Haki. Akainu wouldn't be able to beat him. But some sort of mindfuck ability can.


Spoiler Favorite male characters in manga/hwa/hua

#58 capu

capu

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 628 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 25 January 2017 - 06:20 AM

Hahahahahahaa I love the logic of your last post "he was not the strongest because he was defeated" this is good sound logic. This means when dd was defeated luffy was actually the strongest on DR. Good because I don't like explaining why dd isn't admiral level and that is a much simpler way to discredit him. Similarity when WB was defeated by BB's gun it proves WB wasn't the strongest BB's gun was.
And in ID Magellan defeated BB proving Magellan is the strongest. So Magellan is actually the strongest character in the entire manga......sound logic.

There is a difference between the winner and the stronger.


What? No that is insane WB was the strongest and he died the strongest. Just because he was sick doesn't mean a thing if he still holds the title of strongest. If a sick old man who is a shadow of his former self is still able to beat up and child who wants to take his title then he is still the strongest.... sorry that is how things work.....



And Enel is useless? Enel destroyed an island. You know who else tried to destroy an island, BB and WB, they both failed. What is so hard to see about the fact that luffy only won because he was rubber? Oda even said in an SBS "luffy was lucky to be rubber" Oda did something you clearly missed. Oda set wiper up to be luffy's equal in every way except he didn't have a rubber body. After Enel was done joking around he fodderized wiped in a single shot. That is how easily luffy would of been taken care of if he wasn't immune.
This is as stupid as saying buggy is stronger then mihawk.

u misunderstood! the Almighty (=god) is unbeatable, unless he wants to get beaten, which enel did not, ergo since Enel got defeated he cant be god (=almighty!). I do not argue it powerwise i tell u that noone can/deserves to be labelled as god if he gets beaten because he aint the almighty then anymore!

 

not when u r the almighty (=god)!

 

only if he still is the strongest as of a fact which i am not sure of, the marines may have not known for sure , or even if WB still was the strongest it does not matter in our current discussion which centers around kaidou being the strongest of all , while u in the beginning claimed that there might be a human stronger, for which i see no bases.

and even IF kaidou was "only" the strongest creature, with WB being even stronger , WB is still dead, so it does not help ur point neither does it help Fulmines!!!! U guys talk about things that have nothing to do with our main topic of the current plot, being kaidou strongest of all currently or not!

Moreover even if WB were the strongest back then still, does that negate that even though kaidou might have had this title when WB was still alive, that he as of now still not is the strongest including humans? Answer:NO, for we have noone we know of, except Shanks, or BM who might be able to even challange that title, and shanks we know since forever and BM is center of current arc, both were not labelled as such as of yet, BB does not seem to currently be either, neither have we heard of an admiral having been given said title, so its extremely unlikely why anyone we know off so far , except for kaidou, could hold this title/the meaning of the title now! So what is ur and fulmines point?  

 

An island that was held by clouds.......no real (as in 1000 of meters deep) soil, ergo , in op standard, easily broken!

And? Luffy won because he is rubber? u know of anyone of significance that would have lost against any of the SHs when they were still rookie lvl? tell me a yonkou whom u think could have been beaten by preTS luffy, tell me how Luffy could have beaten an adrmial preTS, lets say Sanji is aokijis natural enemy, u see him beating Aokiji? i dont! Thats what all u enel people like to disregard, noone of significance like admiral or yonkou or their 2-5th in command would have been beaten by any preTS (much less skypia luffy which was like 1/5th of MF luffy, not even had gear!!!!!!!!) sh character, this makes it clear that Enel indeed is fodder and nowhere near what u guys hype him to be!

I never claimed luffy did not beat enel because he was rubber, i tell u guys like forever now to get it into ur skull that someone who is beaten by a fodder character like skypia luffy, is fodder himself, even if the fodder foe used ur natural weakness, since at that weak stage anyone of real importance would still kill u with his finger alone, anyone with CoA skills would have easily deafeated his natural enemy, if the powerlvl of said enemy is only what luffy had back then, but ENEL was INCAPABLE OF DOING SO WHICH MAKES HIM FODDER!!!!!!

 

 

It's just ''we don't know''. 50/50. Where is the evidence/hint to prefer one over another? None! It's a fantasy world. Oda could have made the word red means the color green in this world if he wants.

 

shadowed.

 

Well, that's a big difference already. How about saying mermaid are still human, just with fish lower body and ability to breath underwater? Seriously...

 

What they refer to themselves is irrelevant if there's nothing backing that up. And it's more like they are saying that in a social sense. We're talking biological terminology, about races, not social stuffs. Yes, they look like human, just with wings, and the way they live, talk aren't that different. But that doesn't mean they are suddenly the same race as human.

 

Link, please? And assuming the guy at auction house knows what he's talking about. He's most probably not the one giving Kaidou and WB their titles...

 

But, well, this is like calling tiger and lion the same species just because they are both big cats...

 

So you mean

-WB originally was called WSCreature

-But then he got demoted to WSMan.

-Kaidou was originally WSX (X being the animal his Zoan is)

-But since WB was demoted, Kaidou got promoted and is called WSCreature now?

 

2 problems with that:

- Who keeps track of this title thing? WB, if DD was right, ruled the sea until his death so he never lost so why did people demote him and promote Kaidou? I said again, he was WSMan the moment he was introduced, not just in MFWar so you can forget about ''his sickness'' excuse. Ergo, if human is creature, WB's title should have been WSCreature.

-Having a Zoan doesn't make Kaidou not human. Just a Zoan DF user. It's not like his race actually changes...

 

 

It's not the Marines, though. It's Oda's omnipotent word in a box. Unless even that is to be doubted (though I have to say Mihawk kinda makes me want to doubt it LOL)

 

 

 

 

 

Since when did you get to decide it's highly unlikely? You're using your real world standard and applying it to a fantasy world without any hint whatsoever in the manga that it can be done? That's stupid. Fantasy world can have men gives birth, cat breeds dog or whatever the hell the author wants.

 

WB being dead has no bearing. The logic behind his title remains.

 

And I addressed exactly just that: if Kaidou's title was given due to WB's death, then why isn't Kaidou's WSMan if he's human like you said or why wasn't WB's title WSCreature when he was stronger than Kaidou? All of this under a bigger premise that is human is counted as creature.

 

Honor? So when Zolo beat Mihawk should he be called WS3-sword-styleSwordsman instead of just WSSwordsman?

 

//

Oda did not want to do the same thing? Fair enough but that out-universe. We're doing in-verse. Of course, the author can contradict himself. After all who cares if the story is inconsistent, Oda certainly doesn't and One Piece is the best-selling manga but that's not debating with reasoning anymore. Just an ''anything goes'' be-all-end-all logic.

//

 

There's no attitude. I just said what I thought. Matter-of-fact-ish.

 

Because they are not doing anything in the current arc: Whole Cake Island...

 

Neither your or my definition matters. What matters is One Piece's definition. Besides, I never aid anything about your not calling Enel-sama God. I was attacking all those accusation you made. Whether you think he's God is unimportant.

 

Luffy has immensely advantageous match-up. Imagine a kid who is immune to all physical attacks and heat and even Haki. Akainu wouldn't be able to beat him. But some sort of mindfuck ability can.

Really u consider the possibility of Oda not counting humans as creatures to be 50/50, i say this is ur logic, i dont need to get were ur coming from here, wont even try

 

come on i specifically wrote shaded , so whats ur point??

 

never said merfold were humans said skypeople were, since iirc they referred to themself as such (which i, as i said aint 100% sure though), again ur point? u truly like writing about stuff which does nothing to do with the context right? or is it for post count?

 

u dont think they themselfs should know? k lets leave it at that then, since i dont know for sure anyway , and it has nothing to do with the actual point whether kaidou currently is the strongest there is or not, i dont see this as important as to look it up, neither do i think (since skypians are not relevant to the plot currently anyway) that we need to discuss this.

And no race is the wrong word, it does exactly oppose ur stand! For the actual meaning of the term race, does by definition incline that there r strong differences between a species, anymals i.e. can be of the same race, while they have a total different appearance! i.e. zebra and common horse!

 

only thing i can find is that usop several times calls broggy a guy, which is a human term http://mangaseeonlin...17-page-10.html

moreover even in our society giants often r referred to as being indeed humans, so why should Oda change this? because it would suit u? because u want it to  be different? show me where its stated that they r no humans, i gave u bases (since even for us giants r just gigantic humans, never heard of david vs goliath as it seems.....or even in greek mythology there r qite the number of examples were giants=humans, and in this case even the size roughly fits) for my stand.

 

which is all that is needed as proof does it matter to us, whether one is black or yellow or white answer no, op has the difference in color as well as in size as it seems, not that i might not be wrong with this part, but again it has absolutely nothing to do with the main topic, why r we foucssing this? what the hell........

 

wtf..

first wb was strongest of all, since kaidou is human still!!! , then in sickness he might not have been anymore (but noone could tell, knew, so he actually did not deserve it anymore, but still held it), still does not matter in current discussion.... since let me tell u something, genuis, WB is dead...... so his former strongest man title means shit now... so IF kaidou HAD the title of strongest creature BEFORE WBs death already, back then it could solely have been aimed at creatures, except humans, since WB stood above everyone since his prime, 

 

but after WBs death, i see no reason for ODA to change it afterwards (i gave u reason  as to why, for honor and remembarance sake of a great guy (wb)), giving kaidou another title instead of just including humans, in total, and wb as only challanger being dead, if not why does ODA HAVE TO GIVE kaidou the same title, even if the meaning is the same since there no longer is anyone with the title of strongest man currently the creature thing outclasses all other titles. for here is the thing, we know for a fact that the former owner of the worlds strongest man is dead, present me a new owner and i admit i was wrong with everything concerining this topic ohh wait u cant....well nice talking to u......if we will get a new owner in the time to come u will be right, but as of now all we have is kaidou!

 

ohh my.....

having a zoan wanting to show his might through a title does not biologically make him a creature but allows u to refer to u as such in op terms, or u think the dark king actually is dark, strange he has white hair.....the m3 have been titled several times as beasts , r they beasts? enel refers to himself as a god , well is he, answer again no, he is just a human/birkian with a df....., do i need to continue?

for the rest see above

 

ye wow just wow......once more just some random senseless arguement from u 3 swords still make him him a swordsman...so...urpoint? in history there were several swordsman who used more than 1 blade, strange still they were called swordsman....not according to fulmine.....

 

understand what facts r first the we can talk again

 

still dont get that part, what does that have to do with enel being fodder? that they r not part of the plot currently , certainly does not.....and when did mihawk lie about his power?when did akainu or kaidou? we know bb lied to get his goals, but deceiving others=/=straight out being plain wrong.....

 

so whether i think he is god is unimportant, true i give u that, whether he thinks so and whether he refers to himself as god since he is unstoppable in his eyes and then being proven wrong does!

 

ye look as to how answered to that at kidds part


Edited by capu, 25 January 2017 - 06:28 AM.


#59 captain kidd

captain kidd

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,555 posts

Posted 25 January 2017 - 08:01 AM

Very western way of thinking I like that.

Sadly in other cultures not only do they have more then one god but they fight and can get defeated. That doesn't take away his god hood......


As for kiadou, simple question. If he is the strongest. Why was he never called the strongest man? He has been the strongest creature he has been the strongest pirate, he has never once been called the strongest man.

Is Oda being coy? Is he trying to trick us? Does he not want to recycle titles? No zoro is after a recycled title....

What possible reason could Oda have for this?


And no one not you or me can say that humans are counted as creatures in op. Many times in human history and still in different cultures humans are considered better then creatures and on a different plane of existence. Even in my religion.... Christianity... in the Bible god makes a clear distinction between when he made creatures and when he made man in his own image.

So ya technically humans are creatures
Just like
Technically fuji's meteor would hit with the force of a nuclear bomb and cutting it in pieces wouldn't protect anyone
Technically Lightning would burn rubber long before it burnt metal and rock
Technically kizaru's light fruit should be colorless
Technically aokiji shouldn't be able to freeze water since the second he touches the water he loses his powers.
Technically Fire is capable of burning much hotter then magma
Technically a person who's body is an element shouldn't exist, or at the least part lose all their cloths when they turn into their element form (thank god that doesn't happen.... except for monet)
Technically kizaru's light shouldn't cause explosions....
Technically clouds don't conduct electricity as well as we saw on skypiea
Technically gold isn't "a mineral that turns lightning into mechincal energy"
Technically sand doesn't dehydrate everything it touches.


Do you get the theme? Oda has never been one to bother with technicalities....
 
Anyone beat by fodder is fodder?


Sanji was beaten by Khalifa's Sanji is fodder!!!!!!!!!!!!

And and that isn't where things stop! Since Sanji is fodder anyone Sanji beats is fodder!!!!!
Oh and recently Sanji beat luffy so luffy is fodder!!!!!!!
Meaning anyone luffy beats is fodder!!!!!!!
Luffy beat DD so DD is fodder!!!!!!!!!

Nice logic you use there

Edited by captain kidd, 25 January 2017 - 08:03 AM.

 
captain "Nostradamus" kidd
banner.png
 

#60 capu

capu

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 628 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 25 January 2017 - 03:04 PM

Very western way of thinking I like that.
Sadly in other cultures not only do they have more then one god but they fight and can get defeated. That doesn't take away his god hood......

As for kiadou, simple question. If he is the strongest. Why was he never called the strongest man? He has been the strongest creature he has been the strongest pirate, he has never once been called the strongest man.

Is Oda being coy? Is he trying to trick us? Does he not want to recycle titles? No zoro is after a recycled title....

What possible reason could Oda have for this?


And no one not you or me can say that humans are counted as creatures in op. Many times in human history and still in different cultures humans are considered better then creatures and on a different plane of existence. Even in my religion.... Christianity... in the Bible god makes a clear distinction between when he made creatures and when he made man in his own image.

So ya technically humans are creatures
Just like
Technically fuji's meteor would hit with the force of a nuclear bomb and cutting it in pieces wouldn't protect anyone
Technically Lightning would burn rubber long before it burnt metal and rock
Technically kizaru's light fruit should be colorless
Technically aokiji shouldn't be able to freeze water since the second he touches the water he loses his powers.
Technically Fire is capable of burning much hotter then magma
Technically a person who's body is an element shouldn't exist, or at the least part lose all their cloths when they turn into their element form (thank god that doesn't happen.... except for monet)
Technically kizaru's light shouldn't cause explosions....
Technically clouds don't conduct electricity as well as we saw on skypiea
Technically gold isn't "a mineral that turns lightning into mechincal energy"
Technically sand doesn't dehydrate everything it touches.


Do you get the theme? Oda has never been one to bother with technicalities....
 
Anyone beat by fodder is fodder?


Sanji was beaten by Khalifa's Sanji is fodder!!!!!!!!!!!!

And and that isn't where things stop! Since Sanji is fodder anyone Sanji beats is fodder!!!!!
Oh and recently Sanji beat luffy so luffy is fodder!!!!!!!
Meaning anyone luffy beats is fodder!!!!!!!
Luffy beat DD so DD is fodder!!!!!!!!!

Nice logic you use there

well of course, u wished to know why i dislike enel for his insanity to think he is anywhere near a true (my) god, so i go by my definion of my homecountry which is a western one, ergo enel no god, not even close, i also gave u reasoning why he indeed is fodder and i will answer to ur stand later on.

 

most people only have 1 title, and that title does not change much even if their achievements become even more...

 

and in this case there is no need for it, since there is noone else with the title strongest man/woman/human we know of, creature is the best we got so far (since WB is dead!), the only thing i disagree with u here (sans enel) is that as long as we have no clue about there still even being a title like strongest man, in my eyes as long as there is noone seen to have that, we have to go with what we have, which is the strongest creature thing, u disagree , which of ocurse is fine, since u r on the other side that says that since because kaidou has a different title, there surely is someone else with the title strongest man/woman/human, which i believe to be a leap, since Oda does not need / have to recreate the same title, meaning the same thing exactly with the same word, in my eyes he just needs to transfer its meaning, which i believe he did with Kaidou, i might be wrong on this, but as of now we dont know for sure, since for me humans still can be counted as creatures and since i , unlike u and fulmine have no problem with Oda (as long as WB was alive, under the condition that kaidou already had his title back then) having meant the title previously meaning kaidou as strongest creature without humans, for that would have been WB, with WB dead, including humans too, i think that is the actual point we 2 disagree upon, although after all these posts i aint no longer so sure....

 

dont get that, what r u aiming at with it?

 

again same here, dont know what u r referring to...

 

no actually that is false! god does not distinguish between the importance of animals and those of humans!!!! he just created them in their image, nowhere in the bible does that make us better than animals in his eyes!, that is just our own self-proclamation and has nothing to do with what the bible actually says (although the bible just like the tora and the koran sometimes contradicts itself, so there might be an instance were indeed such a thing is said (although i dont know one) but all in all god did not see us better than any of his other creations, neither r his angels better than others for that matter, he just did us last and gave us more)

 

to the fodder part:

Sanji stuff:

huge difference between someone fighting back with all he has got and someone not even trying to, sanji is dumb in that account, but he could have defeated khalifa, which enel could not have done with luffy ergo still fodder 

sanji luffy same thing, although luffy would not loose to sanji of course ;) !

and yes sanji too was fodder at EL, so were all SHs in my eyes (preTS), some still r even now, just not as much as they individually were back then. since all have powered up!

 

agreed

 

there still is a difference u dont see.

Luffy was fodder himself back then, he aint no longer, ergo luffy beating enel, while still being fodder himself (consequently if the fight luffy vs enel happened now not back then, i would not argue that enel is fodder!, he is in my eyes because some absolute fodder (when compared to actual beasts of NW) beat him!) HUGE DIFFERENCE! Because of that u cant just compare ohh wait luffy now lost to person a. so in ur mind he too is fodder, u know exactly that that has nothing to do with my reasoning. and yes even far stronger (overall) enemies can win vs a far weaker one if the match up is just that bad, but loosing against someone of such a fodder lvl like skypia luffy is the problem i have.

That is the reason why  i believe it to be very awkward to compare urself to any god of any culture since nearly all (dont know for sure) at least would be significant, ergo not being taken down by fodder of the world (lufyy skypia) but at least by someone that actually mattered, like yonkou or admirals, or anywhere under that lvl yet still comparable and not by someone who actually noone of significance cares about and who at that point in time had no impact on the world itself!

 

comparison time:

the fighting-power luffy had at skypia compared to now, is like miley cyrus compared to the klitschkos, its worlds apart! 

 

My comparison was meant as such:

u see skypia Luffy defeating ANY NW veteran (as in admiral, viceadmiral (ok the important ones), yonkou, yonkou commander (1-4, perhaps even 1-5?)) i sure as hell dont, consequently they (skypia Shs) were fodder to those that mattered/r of the same lvl, and because of that Enel was too, any CoApunch of any yonkou commander would 1hit k.o. enel back then , or r u telling me that the power luffy had back then in his punches were anywhere close to what he has now with G4 or in generel?

u telling me DD tanking severel g4 hits is of the same powerscale then his punches vs Enel? u telling me luffys speed is the same? u telling me DDs hits with haki aint superior to those luffy had at skypia, not even talking about his haki infused strings. Enel was NO TANK, hits of a weakling could beat him (i even propose that skypia luffy could have 10 freehits on DD without DD flinching!), ergo he would stand no chance to the ones i am talking about , and because of that he needs to be considered fodder to those!  

luffy bettered himself in nearly everything ergo he no longer is fodder (which might even be true for Enel, if he improved a lot), but enel back then was indeed fodder, just like luffy, granted a fodder with a logia but thats it!


Edited by capu, 25 January 2017 - 03:15 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users