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[Discussion] Marineford / Summit Battle Arc


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#61 captain kidd

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 08:58 AM

So I typed out a really long response to this hitting all the points but my computer..... I hit the refresh button and for some reason it didn't auto save..... so I got angry and left.

So I will address the stuff I liked the most and get back to the others when I am less busy.

Enel comparing himself to a god- how does him getting defeated by fodder doesn't mean anything when that fodder is immune to all Enel's powers. If you were to strap on a pair of anti God magic underwear then go and punch him in the face that wouldn't take away from the alpha and omgea's powers. And if you honestly look at the Greek gods they got killed and defeated all the time. Luffy could probably beat up a few Greek gods espically ones that only use lightning to fight....


His punches back then are clearly nothing compared to current luffy, but Enel got back up easily after all his punches. One punch though was like nothing we have ever seen from luffy, the golden punch was by far one of the strongest punches in the manga, a 100ish ton golden ball moving at speeds so fast Enel the best CoO user ever couldn't even dodge(although he didn't try). Enel could catch luffy's hands when he was using Gatling...... that 100 ton golden ball was moving faster then Gatling. That is one of the hardest hits we have ever seen in OP. Force =massxacceleration. 100tonsx much faster then luffy's fastest non-G2 attack, = insanity
And you know what. Enel got up mere minuets after luffy hit him with that insane attack. If he didn't the arc maxium would of crashed to the ground.
 
Also I need to remind you G3 which isn't even half as heavy as golden rifle and twice as slow as luffy's normal attacks almost killed lucci.....
At the very least Enel survived an attack that would of killed lucci.
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#62 Madara D Dragon

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 10:02 AM

Jumping from Kaido looking like a mad guy who's difficult to reason with to saying it's impossible to reason with him,from there to saying the only thing Shanks could do to stop him was fight him, and from that to say Shanks appearing unharmed means he is stronger... That's a huge jump ("yuuuuuuuge" like Trump would say).


I trully believe Kaido is the strongest man now, and the "creature" part is to enforce the idea he isn' a normal human. (Or as said before, he isn't human, but either way I trully believe this was meant to imply Kaido is the strongest character there is in this manga now). Of course, that's just how I feel about it, might not be right of course.
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#63 captain kidd

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 10:58 AM

Jumping from Kaido looking like a mad guy who's difficult to reason with to saying it's impossible to reason with him,from there to saying the only thing Shanks could do to stop him was fight him, and from that to say Shanks appearing unharmed means he is stronger... That's a huge jump ("yuuuuuuuge" like Trump would say).


I trully believe Kaido is the strongest man now, and the "creature" part is to enforce the idea he isn' a normal human. (Or as said before, he isn't human, but either way I trully believe this was meant to imply Kaido is the strongest character there is in this manga now). Of course, that's just how I feel about it, might not be right of course.


Is it really that big of a jump? I am not basing my initial premesis on looks, I am basing it on something law said. Law said that kiadou is a beast who gets angry easily and if luffy and law were to destroy the factory kiadou would kill DD, if luffy and law were to destroy the factory and DD kiadou would kill luffy and law.

That clearly spells out kiadou is the kind of person to get enraged easily and switches blame onto other people easily.

For some reason kiadou wanted to kill WB. Shanks stoped kiadou, shanks stopped the unreasonable monster who would of killed DD for next to nothing.

Two options 1- kiadou is an extremely reasonable person who shanks talked things out with
2- shanks beat kiadou unscathed.

Option one makes no sense. If kiadou is supposed to be a beast and one of the strongest in the world. Why is he reasonably talking things out? BM even refused to reason and she sucks. WB even refused to reason and he was supposed to be the smart emperor.

Everything we know adout kiadou says he is a monster right?

Add that to the fact that when the marines saw shanks they wondered how he got to the gl when he was just recently clashing with kiadou. It seems to me Oda wants us to know something went down
 
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#64 Madara D Dragon

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 03:29 PM

Is it really that big of a jump? I am not basing my initial premesis on looks, I am basing it on something law said. Law said that kiadou is a beast who gets angry easily and if luffy and law were to destroy the factory kiadou would kill DD, if luffy and law were to destroy the factory and DD kiadou would kill luffy and law.

That clearly spells out kiadou is the kind of person to get enraged easily and switches blame onto other people easily.

For some reason kiadou wanted to kill WB. Shanks stoped kiadou, shanks stopped the unreasonable monster who would of killed DD for next to nothing.

Two options 1- kiadou is an extremely reasonable person who shanks talked things out with
2- shanks beat kiadou unscathed.

Option one makes no sense. If kiadou is supposed to be a beast and one of the strongest in the world. Why is he reasonably talking things out? BM even refused to reason and she sucks. WB even refused to reason and he was supposed to be the smart emperor.

Everything we know adout kiadou says he is a monster right?

Add that to the fact that when the marines saw shanks they wondered how he got to the gl when he was just recently clashing with kiadou. It seems to me Oda wants us to know something went down


Kaido getting angry with DD because he let two rookies destroy all his trading system doesn't seem to imply he is an unreasonable beast to me. I mean, this guy hs been so incompetent two rookies destroyed his trading system and fucked my plan. I believe that's a reason to be way angrier than "this old man is going to fight the marines and die, uuugh I wanna die too!"

I mean,imagine a ViceAdmiral screwing up a one of the Marines main strategies to get manpower, and the plan is ruined by too seemingly useles brats. Akainu would magma fist the VAs ass.
But if it's Fujitora going to fight a whole Yonko army I bet he could be more easily convinced not to get mad at him (I know,it's a bad comparison as Fuji is one of Akainus subordinates so it makes more sense for him to care about Fujis actions than for Kaido to care about WBs, but I hope you got the point).

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#65 D.Hyuga

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 06:05 PM


For some reason kiadou wanted to kill WB. Shanks stoped kiadou, shanks stopped the unreasonable monster who would of killed DD for next to nothing.

 

Or two drunkards sit together...



#66 Chillman

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 06:17 PM

Or Shanks offered something outlandish.

#67 Fulmine

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 07:17 AM

Or Shanks offered something outlandish.

I know there's a person who can kill you

Where? Tell me

The Moon. A god called Enel lives there. But you can only go there if your ship is powered by 500 sea king corpses in Calm belt.

 

 

And that's how Kaidou left Shanks alone.


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#68 captain kidd

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 09:25 AM

Kaido getting angry with DD because he let two rookies destroy all his trading system doesn't seem to imply he is an unreasonable beast to me. I mean, this guy hs been so incompetent two rookies destroyed his trading system and fucked my plan. I believe that's a reason to be way angrier than "this old man is going to fight the marines and die, uuugh I wanna die too!"

I mean,imagine a ViceAdmiral screwing up a one of the Marines main strategies to get manpower, and the plan is ruined by too seemingly useles brats. Akainu would magma fist the VAs ass.
But if it's Fujitora going to fight a whole Yonko army I bet he could be more easily convinced not to get mad at him (I know,it's a bad comparison as Fuji is one of Akainus subordinates so it makes more sense for him to care about Fujis actions than for Kaido to care about WBs, but I hope you got the point).


I get what you are saying I am not saying it is reasonable, but everything we know and have seen about kiadou scream "unreasonable monster"

My first direct evidence of this is kiadou knocking one of his subordinates through a mountain for telling kiadou luffy could be a threat.
Ya that was stupid of the subordinate but even jack just stuck to yelling. If jack is more reasonable then you you know you have a problem. (Jack is the guy who attacked 2 admirals)
 

Or Shanks offered something outlandish.


And that would seriously hurt kiadou's image as an unreasonable monster
 
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#69 Chillman

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 10:49 AM


And that would seriously hurt kiadou's image as an unreasonable monster

 

By accepting something very unreasonable?


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#70 captain kidd

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 11:24 AM

By accepting something very unreasonable?


Oh I see what you are saying, kinda like how shanks could trick buggy maybe shanks knows something about kiadou also going on looks alone maybe they were rookies at the same time?

Either way i really hope we get an explanation on how on earth shanks turned kiadou around. And why the marines described it as a "clash"
 
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#71 GiaThird

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 10:09 AM

Oh I see what you are saying, kinda like how shanks could trick buggy maybe shanks knows something about kiadou also going on looks alone maybe they were rookies at the same time?

Either way i really hope we get an explanation on how on earth shanks turned kiadou around. And why the marines described it as a "clash"

 

Shanks clashed with WB as well, and we know how that turned out. Shanks was on Roger's crew, he is a easy on going guy, probably he has the informaiton and the resources to strike a deal with them, And if all goes wrong he can just say "well, we could fight, tie, and you cant get to WB anyway".



#72 captain kidd

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 10:32 AM

Shanks clashed with WB as well, and we know how that turned out. Shanks was on Roger's crew, he is a easy on going guy, probably he has the informaiton and the resources to strike a deal with them, And if all goes wrong he can just say "well, we could fight, tie, and you cant get to WB anyway".


We actually have no clue how that fight turned out. We didn't see WB or shanks for several arc after their clash.

With kiadou and shank's clash we saw shanks the day after uninsured. Proving what ever happened shanks got the better of it.

WB and shanks on the other hand. Well WB could of beaten shanks within an inch of his life for all we know, shanks could of healed up in the time he was off screen.



Also if you don't want to believe that, there is the fact that unlike kiadou, shanks and WB are presented as reasonable guys, they seem like they could talk it out, where kiadou is presented as an uncontrollable monster, the kind of person you would not expect to talk it out.
 
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#73 capu

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 03:08 AM

We actually have no clue how that fight turned out. We didn't see WB or shanks for several arc after their clash.

With kiadou and shank's clash we saw shanks the day after uninsured. Proving what ever happened shanks got the better of it.

WB and shanks on the other hand. Well WB could of beaten shanks within an inch of his life for all we know, shanks could of healed up in the time he was off screen.



Also if you don't want to believe that, there is the fact that unlike kiadou, shanks and WB are presented as reasonable guys, they seem like they could talk it out, where kiadou is presented as an uncontrollable monster, the kind of person you would not expect to talk it out.

dude u r totally misreading it. WB and Roger have been described as Monsters and DEMONS as well, yet u say they r reasonable, while simultanously claim Kaidou aint.....thats just not adding up.

For u Roger , who kind of is like WB, being reasonble as WBs "mirror person", goes against the fact that Roger destroyed the army of an entire country just for having spoken ill about his nakama! WB was said several times to kill all that hurt his family, does that sound reasonable? 

Kaidou aint different, he has things he does not allow, while other times he uses his brain.....



#74 captain kidd

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:47 AM

dude u r totally misreading it. WB and Roger have been described as Monsters and DEMONS as well, yet u say they r reasonable, while simultanously claim Kaidou aint.....thats just not adding up.
For u Roger , who kind of is like WB, being reasonble as WBs "mirror person", goes against the fact that Roger destroyed the army of an entire country just for having spoken ill about his nakama! WB was said several times to kill all that hurt his family, does that sound reasonable?
Kaidou aint different, he has things he does not allow, while other times he uses his brain.....


I wouldn't dare say roger is reasonable. Roger.... well ace is described as a mirror to roger. Ace is one of the least reasonable people in OP and he was only on screen for a few dozen chapters.... everything we know about roger says he is an unreasonable moron.


WB on the other hand, well WB is reasonable. He heard out shanks when he had something to say. They dissagreeded of course for obvious reasons but it isn't like they could ever agree on that.... when his guys doubted him he didn't call them morons and say follow me he gave them an escape rout and said if you don't believe me leave. Even his expectations for the war. WB knew he was going to die and he knew the reasonable cost for saving ace, he didn't convince himself like jack that he would go in over his head and come out alive.

Don't get me wrong WB is literally the stupidest commander in op but he was reasonable he listened to people's problems when he could.



Also that was only one option, there is also the option, since we didn't see shanks and WB for a long time after their confrontation, they they had a serious fight.
 
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#75 Abaroxa

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 06:58 PM

Who stole the spotlight in the war?

#76 Zeando

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 07:19 PM

Marco attracted a good deal of attention

Teach came too late


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#77 Abaroxa

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 07:23 PM

Marco attracted a good deal of attention
Teach came too late


What about shanks, he lay down the law. Up to that moment I didn't think much of him.

#78 Zeando

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 07:28 PM

dunno, Shanks felt like Teach to me, very important role, but wasn't present during the whole thing


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#79 Fulmine

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 08:00 AM

Akainu and Luffy. Then Shanks and WB.


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#80 captain kidd

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 11:14 AM

Who stole the spotlight in the war?


Luffy of course.

A war between WB and the marines/warlords

Was somehow entirely focused on luffy.... sure he is the main character but he had no place on that stage. The strongest we're battling there way was luffy getting literally carried at some points, by the strong?

Ya he was the only one aside from WB who could of gotten past garp..... but they didn't know that.....
 
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