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[TV] Marvel/Netflix The Defenders


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#21 RamenRenegade

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Posted 02 April 2017 - 03:45 PM

So I finally finished Iron Fist and I'm going to start off by saying I feel I'm being generous by giving this a D score. There was so little good in this series I find it almost amazing that this show was allowed to air.

The motivations and characterizations of almost every character in this show seemed not change from episode to episode but, at times, scene to scene.

Danny Rand and Davos respectively were both badly miscast. Especially Danny, who at know point did he look like a person who'd studied martial arts rigorously for 15 years. That dude looked like he had to Google how to do a pushup after he was cast.

Speaking of Danny, he was the most unlike able MC, not just in the Netflix show, but in the entire MCU. His personality was never consistent, he did nothing right, made every nonsensical mistake and then he'd randomly freak out like was a malfunctioning android. BTW, I know he still had much to learn as Iron Fist but he was getting his ass kicked by EVERY ONE.

Half the show followed the Meachem family drama that was Sooooo tedious. One minute Grant is a Dick, then he's a crazy drug addict, then he's helping Danny? And Joy, unbelievably naive who for no reason at all wants Danny dead at the end, even though she KNOWS he did NOTHING wrong?

Claire suddenly is skilled enough to fight members of the Hand after she takes some Kung fu classes after work? (Does she actually have a job?) And the Hand, who supposed to be this great mystical enemy are just a bunch of ninja drug dealers with all the ability of the Foot Clan from the 90s TMNT cartoon. Seriously, go back the very first TMNT movie, it's the same clan, differnt body part.

Most of the fight scenes were at best forgetable or at worst, just downright bad. There was no creative fight scenes. DON'T WATCH THIS SHOW AT THE SAME TIME AS INTO THE BADLANDS. YOU WILL HATE IRON FIST EVEN MORE!

Only good thing? Colleen Wing was spot on. Jerry Hogarth was good in her few scenes. I did find Wards' overall story to be somewhat interesting. Madam Gao was good as well.

I give this show a D. No...D-.
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  • #22 DarkNemesis

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    Posted 02 April 2017 - 03:55 PM

    @RamenRenegade - This review gets a A+

     

    That dude looked like he had to Google how to do a pushup after he was cast.

     

    This line is classic.

     

    And the Hand, who supposed to be this great mystical enemy are just a bunch of ninja drug dealers with all the ability of the Foot Clan from the 90s TMNT cartoon. Seriously, go back the very first TMNT movie, it's the same clan, differnt body part.

     

    Excellent observation :D


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    #23 Ace1225

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    Posted 02 April 2017 - 04:49 PM

    Danny Rand and Davos respectively were both badly miscast. Especially Danny, who at know point did he look like a person who'd studied martial arts rigorously for 15 years. That dude looked like he had to Google how to do a pushup after he was cast.

    Watching the series now myself, so I can't comment on anything beyond this point. The actor has admitted in interviews that they gave him nowhere near the time needed to actually train. He was going through fight choreography 15-20 minutes before they would actually shoot the episode. So, on this point, that's not his fault. That's 100% Marvel's fault and stands in direct conflict with what they did for Daredevil. It's even worse because, based on what i've seen from the first 4 episodes, he's not wearing the costume. No costume makes it pretty much impossible to replace the actor with a stunt double who is more experienced, which only leads to it looking that much worse. I'd call it more Marvel being dumb in terms of preparing the actor they chose rather than miscasting, because Charlie Cox didn't have a background in martial arts either, but did just fine. Marvel just didn't put in the proper planning this time around.

     

    I'll have more one I finish the season, but the hand to hand is definitely a weak point for this series when you consider that it has to compete with both Daredevil and Arrow.


    I can't force you to believe me that's your choice. People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That's how they define "reality". But what does it mean to be "correct" and "true?" Merely vague concepts...their reality may all be a mirage. Can we consider them to simply be living in their own world, shaped by their beliefs?-Itachi Uchiha


    #24 DarkNemesis

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    Posted 02 April 2017 - 05:27 PM


    BTW, I know he still had much to learn as Iron Fist but he was getting his ass kicked by EVERY ONE.

     

    The problem with that observation is that him being the Iron Fist had nothing to do with him being a martial artist. By that I mean, the Iron Fist is about him using his powers and how to channel ki. But him being a martial artist. Man, he sucked at it. In the movie and in real life. So aside from Madame Gao hitting him with the Buddha Palm Fist, he shouldn't have had his ass kicked by anyone.

     


    The actor has admitted in interviews that they gave him nowhere near the time needed to actually train. He was going through fight choreography 15-20 minutes before they would actually shoot the episode.

     

    I can't imagine that Marvel or Netflix or whoever was in charge actually allowed that to happen. Are we sure Marvel didn't let him throw them under the bus so he could get some of the heat off of himself?


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    #25 ddboy102

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    Posted 02 April 2017 - 06:32 PM

    I gave up after 3 episodes, Marvel was doing to murch.

     

    I read the sypnosis online and I'm glad I didn't waste my time.

    ironfist11.jpg?w=2700&h=1800


    Edited by ddboy102, 02 April 2017 - 06:33 PM.

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    #26 Ace1225

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    Posted 02 April 2017 - 07:06 PM

    I can't imagine that Marvel or Netflix or whoever was in charge actually allowed that to happen. Are we sure Marvel didn't let him throw them under the bus so he could get some of the heat off of himself?

    https://twitter.com/...4369028/photo/1

     

    C7d0zKTW4AAPCgv.jpg

     

    I wouldn't necessarily say he's throwing them under the bus. He says it right out, the filming schedule was tight and to be honest i'm inclined to believe him. Because we know that right after finishing Iron Fist he had to go right into shooting The Defenders, something that also doesn't make much sense, but we know that it happened because Marvel announced it themselves.


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    #27 RamenRenegade

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    Posted 03 April 2017 - 05:26 AM

    Watching the series now myself, so I can't comment on anything beyond this point. The actor has admitted in interviews that they gave him nowhere near the time needed to actually train. He was going through fight choreography 15-20 minutes before they would actually shoot the episode. So, on this point, that's not his fault. That's 100% Marvel's fault and stands in direct conflict with what they did for Daredevil. It's even worse because, based on what i've seen from the first 4 episodes, he's not wearing the costume. No costume makes it pretty much impossible to replace the actor with a stunt double who is more experienced, which only leads to it looking that much worse. I'd call it more Marvel being dumb in terms of preparing the actor they chose rather than miscasting, because Charlie Cox didn't have a background in martial arts either, but did just fine. Marvel just didn't put in the proper planning this time around.
     
    I'll have more one I finish the season, but the hand to hand is definitely a weak point for this series when you consider that it has to compete with both Daredevil and Arrow.

     

    I have heard that he didn't get the time he probably needed. 3 weeks is a joke if that is true. But that doesn't absolve him from his acting. But the blame lies everywhere. There is a failure in the writing, direction, choreography and production.

     

    The problem with that observation is that him being the Iron Fist had nothing to do with him being a martial artist. By that I mean, the Iron Fist is about him using his powers and how to channel ki. But him being a martial artist. Man, he sucked at it. In the movie and in real life. So aside from Madame Gao hitting him with the Buddha Palm Fist, he shouldn't have had his ass kicked by anyone.


    Not at all. To be the Iron Fist denotes a certain level of skill as a martial artist. You can't just roll out of bed as a novice a become Iron Fist. Not to mention, Danny never stopped talking about how great he was and he was a warrior. Yet he never came a across as a master class warrior. They could have used wire-fu to make him look like a true bad ass or give him at least a mask so that a stunt double with more training could sub in for fight scenes.
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  • #28 DarkNemesis

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    Posted 03 April 2017 - 07:40 AM

    Not at all. To be the Iron Fist denotes a certain level of skill as a martial artist. You can't just roll out of bed as a novice a become Iron Fist. Not to mention, Danny never stopped talking about how great he was and he was a warrior. Yet he never came a across as a master class warrior. They could have used wire-fu to make him look like a true bad ass or give him at least a mask so that a stunt double with more training could sub in for fight scenes.


    You need solid martial arts training before becoming the Iron Fist true. But Davos had the same training and he wasn't the Iron Fist. And yet, his martial arts skills were superior to Danny's (until the story demanded it otherwise). Also, when people commented on his Iron Fist training it wasn't his martial arts they were critiquing. But his use and knowledge of being the Iron Fist. Ki, in particular.

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    #29 RamenRenegade

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    Posted 03 April 2017 - 05:29 PM

    You need solid martial arts training before becoming the Iron Fist true. But Davos had the same training and he wasn't the Iron Fist. And yet, his martial arts skills were superior to Danny's (until the story demanded it otherwise). Also, when people commented on his Iron Fist training it wasn't his martial arts they were critiquing. But his use and knowledge of being the Iron Fist. Ki, in particular.

    Actually, during the fight between Davos and Danny, Danny stated that Davos actually could never beat him. Davos just seemed to be better because he was more ruthless. But I think u miss my point. The fact is, in order to become Iron Fist you do need a level of skill as a fighter. Danny trained for 15 years in grueling conditions. Therefore, just as a martial artist, he should have a level of skill that should make a fight with regular men easy. Yet, even in his fights with lesser fighters he stuggled.

    Now I'm aware that they did this to increase the level of drama in the fight scenes. But instead all it did was consistently make him look weak. That's all I'm saying. Yes, Danny is a novice in the use of the Iron Fist. But he's a seasoned warrior just in terms of Kung Fu. But it never really felt like that.

    Edited by RamenRenegade, 03 April 2017 - 05:30 PM.

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  • #30 DarkNemesis

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    Posted 03 April 2017 - 05:52 PM

    @RamenRenegade - we're saying the same thing. just making different distinctions. where you keep the martial arts training and ki use together. i on the other hand separate them. other than that, we've been saying the same thing.

     

    Examples -

     


    Actually, during the fight between Davos and Danny, Danny stated that Davos actually could never beat him. Davos just seemed to be better because he was more ruthless.

     


    But Davos had the same training and he wasn't the Iron Fist. And yet, his martial arts skills were superior to Danny's (until the story demanded it otherwise).

     

     

     


    The fact is, in order to become Iron Fist you do need a level of skill as a fighter.

     


    You need solid martial arts training before becoming the Iron Fist true.

     

     

     


    Therefore, just as a martial artist, he should have a level of skill that should make a fight with regular men easy. Yet, even in his fights with lesser fighters he stuggled.

     


    So aside from Madame Gao hitting him with the Buddha Palm Fist, he shouldn't have had his ass kicked by anyone.

    Edited by DarkNemesis, 03 April 2017 - 05:52 PM.

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    #31 Ace1225

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    Posted 03 April 2017 - 09:35 PM

     

    I have heard that he didn't get the time he probably needed. 3 weeks is a joke if that is true. But that doesn't absolve him from his acting. But the blame lies everywhere. There is a failure in the writing, direction, choreography and production.

    Agreed and I think there's a pretty clear drop in quality all around between this and say Daredevil or Luke Cage. If we're blaming any one thing i'd probably cite the fact that Marvel was eager to move onto their big Defenders project.


    I can't force you to believe me that's your choice. People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That's how they define "reality". But what does it mean to be "correct" and "true?" Merely vague concepts...their reality may all be a mirage. Can we consider them to simply be living in their own world, shaped by their beliefs?-Itachi Uchiha


    #32 DarkNemesis

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    Posted 03 April 2017 - 09:55 PM

    Agreed and I think there's a pretty clear drop in quality all around between this and say Daredevil or Luke Cage. If we're blaming any one thing i'd probably cite the fact that Marvel was eager to move onto their big Defenders project.


    I hope they air dropped the kid to a shaolin monastery in the meanwhile.
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    #33 Ace1225

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    Posted 03 April 2017 - 10:24 PM

    I'm jumping between watching Iron Fist and reading an old Green Lantern comic from the 90s (Guy Gardner if anyone's wondering lol), but before I get any further I just have to say something. I'm not a major Iron Fist fan by any means, but even I can see where this plot is diverging from the original origin. Having heard and read complaints about the show, I think that Marvel would have been better off had they stuck to that. Danny Rand returns to New York to seek revenge on Harold for killing his father, but decides not to when he sees that Harold lost his legs shortly after killing Danny's father (It was an avalanche or something). Harold, however, is killed right after by a ninja and Joy walks in and blames Danny for his death. Naturally, Danny spends some time clearing his name, during which he meets Luke, Misty, Colleen, etc. and becomes a superhero.

     

    I really think that might have been better received than this story, which seems to be Danny working to regain a company that his certainly his by right, but that he knows nothing about. You could even have had it revealed towards the end or middle of the series that the ninja that killed Harole was working for The Hand. This connects this series to Daredevil automatically then. I'm saying all this because Danny, to my understanding, doesn't even run this company in the comics. Yet he's still obviously a hero. That tells me that he doesn't need this company in the same way that Batman needs his or in the way that Iron Man needs his. So, why base your show around him getting involved with a company that isn't integral to the character? I also think that actually having him spend time trying to clear his name in a framing would have given more chances to show off his combat skills. When the character, again, doesn't need a business why throw it into his environment? Because we've spent a lot of time in board meetings and talking business so far. 


    Edited by Ace1225, 03 April 2017 - 10:26 PM.

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    #34 Tokoya

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    Posted 04 April 2017 - 10:20 AM

    The Defenders will be coming out on August 18th


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    #35 DarkNemesis

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    Posted 04 April 2017 - 10:23 AM

    The Defenders will be coming out on August 18th

     

    That's quick. A bit too quick for Finn. Here's hoping he eats, drinks, sleeps, and breathes martial arts while he can.


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    #36 waleuska

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    Posted 04 April 2017 - 12:25 PM

    That's quick. A bit too quick for Finn. Here's hoping he eats, drinks, sleeps, and breathes martial arts while he can.


    Or kill him off so everyone else can have a reason to fight.
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    #37 DarkNemesis

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    Posted 04 April 2017 - 12:26 PM

    Or kill him off so everyone else can have a reason to fight.

     

    Then he can resurrect as an asian at the end :lol:


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    #38 ddboy102

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    Posted 04 April 2017 - 01:36 PM

    Then he can resurrect as an asian at the end :lol:

     

     

    As long as he is daddy asf

     

     

    or we can  get a better guy like 

     

    Ryan Kwanten 


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    #39 Ace1225

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    Posted 04 April 2017 - 05:00 PM

    The Defenders will be coming out on August 18th

    Wow, that's really quick. I hope that it goes smoothly and that Marvel doesn't end up bungling this due to rushing. Avengers was the success it was not only due to hype, but because Marvel took the time to set it up and pull it off properly. I want the same for Defenders. While they've done great work with DaredevilJessica Jones, and Luke Cage, the reception for Iron Fist alone should have them consider what went wrong with it and fix it for the next entry. That being said, with announcements for a season 3 of DD and a season 2 of JJ, i'm really wondering what the next phase of their Netflix portion of the MCU is going to be. We know Punisher's got a show coming. And Cloak and Dagger and the Runaways will be appearing on other networks. I stil think that Moon Knight and Shang-Chi are viable candidates for their own shows. If they could get the budget for it i'd definitely throw in Hercules as well.


    I can't force you to believe me that's your choice. People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That's how they define "reality". But what does it mean to be "correct" and "true?" Merely vague concepts...their reality may all be a mirage. Can we consider them to simply be living in their own world, shaped by their beliefs?-Itachi Uchiha


    #40 DarkNemesis

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    Posted 05 April 2017 - 08:32 AM

    Somebody was wishing that Iron Fist had worn a mask or something. Well here's your wish come true. Just 6 months too late.


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