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[Discussion] Realism in Manga and Anime

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#1 retroluffy13

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 03:01 PM

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Horikoshi is the new kid on the block who says screw tropes, I want my work to be a reflection of real people in fictional situations.  When the series first came out, many people likend Bakugou to Sasuke from Naruto, but as time has gone on we've seen that this isn't the case.  Bakugou is the perfect example of realism in that he's not as black and white as people would like to make him out to be.   Is it good?  Is it bad?  Should more manga take this approach, or do you prefer your characters simple and one dimensional like has been previously established? 


Edited by retroluffy13, 23 March 2017 - 06:45 PM.

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#2 Grimmjagger

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 03:18 PM

Gotta admit that's a great question!

 

For me when character developpement is well done, that goes without saying one of my fav thing in mangas, it is well done in BnHA for now at least.

 

Realistic character developpement is something to be much more considered by mangaka, We officially entered a new era on mangas and I believe BnHA is a perfect example of what new mangas need to be about in "realism".


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#3 eemo23

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 06:43 PM

I second @Grimmjagger in both his response and that Retro asked a great question.

 

I truly applaud Horikoshi for his ability to make the story as realistic as possible. It actually engages the readers to critically think about the characters, their emotions, actions, thought process, and how it affects them within the MHA universe.

 

If it were as one-dimensional as FT, I could skim through and read it for fun. 

 

MHA is more than just your average manga. I've never been so engaged in a manga before. See, plot twists are one thing. But this manga isn't just about plot twists. There are numerous instances where we can look at the characters and say, "Dang, that sucks" or "I know exactly how you feel".

 

We're able to relate to the characters so much more here.

 

Uraraka isn't Sakura. She's a determined female who isn't just attracted to Deku. Uraraka has been amazing in the series so far. 

 

Bakugo isn't Sasuke - He's not going to become evil to become stronger. He thinks logically and values his ideology and dreams much more than just power. He, too, feels bad and felt responsible for "the death" of All Might. He thinks and acts just like the character we know, Bakugo, should - and not a different way because the plot may demand him to or "shonen tropes" demand him to.

 

Todoroki didn't overcome his emotional tension with his father in one go after his fight with Deku. In a normal shonen, one's something is dealt with, its done. But here, just like a normal human, he still struggles to overcome that mental and emotional tension. He's a middle schooler, he has other problems too. 

 

Iida didn't become evil. One of the biggest blow to haters and people saying, "Oh let me tell you what's going to happen. Iida is going to go Sasuke route". Wrong again! Iida thinks and feels like a normal person would - again, not the typical one-dimensional way a manga character would - and he values his brother's legacy. 

 

All Might has so many Death flags, it's not even funny lol. But he still hasn't died! The author isn't afraid to characters either, he's already killed off a character we are somewhat familiar with. 

 

Finally, just think about Deku. His emotions and facial expressions say it all. He's a great character. And he stays true to his beliefs. 

 

This is an amazing series because it's so different from other mainstream mangas in that it's so real. 

 

Dude, the classmates actually interact with each other!!! How often do we see that happen in other mangas? 

 

Did you ever see Chouji talk to Sasuke like Bakugo talks to Kaminari? The character interactions are so cool.

 

Even recently, Deku talking with the two senseis, Midnight and the other sensei who doesn't have legs. We don't see interactions like this happen in other manga, if it's "unnecessary". That's the kind of stuff you would see in a filler episode in the anime. I personally like to see that kind of stuff.

 

It's amazing that Horikoshi goes out of his way to make this so realistic. 


Edited by eemo23, 23 March 2017 - 06:49 PM.

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#4 diezdragon

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 12:20 AM

Just on tropes which was mentioned in the opening post, I would say BNHA relies a lot on classical tropes and cliches however, but uses them to its advantage, creating both situations in which the reader predicts something is going to happen due to obvious clues and when the manga goes completely against the flow of Shounen conventions. In both cases, Horikoshi often manages to surprise the reader regardless, and especially in the former case also take an overplayed trope (and take advantage of the readers already knowing it), and take it one step further. Cue extreme reader satisfaction with the story-telling.
I have personally never thought BNHA's concept or general theme unique. In fact, on the scale of low concept (think movies that do not rely upon a specific plot element to draw viewers) vs high concept (like Snakes on a Plane, Jurassic Park, etc), this manga is definitely towards the lower end of the spectrum. People with super-abilities becoming heroes is not something new, nor is the academy setting, constant struggle against villains, peer rivalry, claiming legacy, etc. Which I think contributes to why this series is so good, in fact I would say low concept settings done well are a lot more satisfying in the long run than a high concept manga that builds on a single idea and then burns out.
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#5 retroluffy13

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 12:49 AM

Just on tropes which was mentioned in the opening post, I would say BNHA relies a lot on classical tropes and cliches however, but uses them to its advantage, creating both situations in which the reader predicts something is going to happen due to obvious clues and when the manga goes completely against the flow of Shounen conventions. In both cases, Horikoshi often manages to surprise the reader regardless, and especially in the former case also take an overplayed trope (and take advantage of the readers already knowing it), and take it one step further. Cue extreme reader satisfaction with the story-telling.
I have personally never thought BNHA's concept or general theme unique. In fact, on the scale of low concept (think movies that do not rely upon a specific plot element to draw viewers) vs high concept (like Snakes on a Plane, Jurassic Park, etc), this manga is definitely towards the lower end of the spectrum. People with super-abilities becoming heroes is not something new, nor is the academy setting, constant struggle against villains, peer rivalry, claiming legacy, etc. Which I think contributes to why this series is so good, in fact I would say low concept settings done well are a lot more satisfying in the long run than a high concept manga that builds on a single idea and then burns out.

here's where we disagree.  things like rivalry's, comradery, heroes, academia setting, ect.  these aren't tropes so much as they are real world ideas that just happen to be common in story telling because, well, everyone can relate to them.  the tropes come in terms of the direction the author takes with them, and in terms of that, horikoshi almost never takes his stories in classical directions one might expect him to.  instead of grand, over-exaggerated plot lines we get subtle, endearing mini plots.  instead of one character getting the spotlight, horikoshi tries to the best of his ability to give all the characters the spotlight.  instead of portraying deku as some kind of badass everyone wants to be, he normalizes him.  and imo, its just overall a better representation of the average life then we tend to get in most overexagerated storylines about the human condition.   

 

certain elements in storylines are inescapable because otherwise, people wont relate with them.  but that in of itself doesn't make them tropes so much as it makes them things more people are likely to write about because that's just how most people tend to live they're lives.  most kids go to school, most males want to be heroes or whatever at some point in they're lives, most kids at some point will pick up a rivalry or two along the way, and almost all people in general want to be or are in a close tight knit group of friends.  so idk if its so much that these ideas are tropes as they are, well, the human experience.


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#6 diezdragon

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 04:30 AM

here's where we disagree.  things like rivalry's, comradery, heroes, academia setting, ect.  these aren't tropes so much as they are real world ideas that just happen to be common in story telling because, well, everyone can relate to them.  the tropes come in terms of the direction the author takes with them, and in terms of that, horikoshi almost never takes his stories in classical directions one might expect him to.  instead of grand, over-exaggerated plot lines we get subtle, endearing mini plots.  instead of one character getting the spotlight, horikoshi tries to the best of his ability to give all the characters the spotlight.  instead of portraying deku as some kind of badass everyone wants to be, he normalizes him.  and imo, its just overall a better representation of the average life then we tend to get in most overexagerated storylines about the human condition.   

 

certain elements in storylines are inescapable because otherwise, people wont relate with them.  but that in of itself doesn't make them tropes so much as it makes them things more people are likely to write about because that's just how most people tend to live they're lives.  most kids go to school, most males want to be heroes or whatever at some point in they're lives, most kids at some point will pick up a rivalry or two along the way, and almost all people in general want to be or are in a close tight knit group of friends.  so idk if its so much that these ideas are tropes as they are, well, the human experience.

 

The protagonist being portrayed as imperfect, yet likable is far from new or innovative like I said, only Horikoshi manages to put a fresh spin on it by addressing this more clearly and detailing Deku's climb to greatness to make it seem not only satisfying but also realistic that he acquires the power and experience that he does. But "normal" dorky main characters such as Deku really aren't innovative in that sense. Other examples of Horikoshi playing the "standard" trope would be Deku saving Uraraka during the entrance exam, and then both of them getting into the school anyway due to their action being heroic. Despite being cliched, there is nothing unsatisfying or "asspully" about this scene, as All Might presents it perfectly, even calling out the cheesiness of it and calling out these tropes as the true essence of heroism.

Another example would be Kouta (was his name right?), the kid that Deku befriended during training camp. His parents had died being heroes, and he refused to warm up to Deku until the latter saved him and showed him what being a hero about. Sounds familiar? To me it certainly echoes of a lot of kids we've seen in mangas such as Naruto, or One Piece (including its many anime filler arcs). And how was the muscle villain defefated by Deku? By him pulling out even more power than before, and calling it like 10000%. Despite this, it was an awesome read because of the well-polished story-telling tying into Deku's wish to become a hero, as well as Kouta's own character and his relationship and view of heroes. Cliched as nothing else, but still amazing.

 

Lots of character getting the focus and their own mini-arcs is also nothing new, but I definitely agree many of this manga's characters (in particular the classmates of Deku, but also the villains such as Shigaraki) are all characters strong enough to stand by their own almost, with lots of character traits and little regression. By this I mean that these characters aren't forced to interact with each other in a special way in other to remain relevant, but they can progress and act on their own in a sense, will not lacking the depth to make this seem weird.

 

Overall, my point is that I love this manga, and I think Horikoshi has a special kind of talent; but try explaining the plot or premise of this manga to your friends in order to make it seem unique (I have tried a few times), and you will find it sounds like any Shounen manga almost. What makes this work so great is not the story, any other mangaka could try to create something based on the same story, it's how the story-telling is set up in my opinion (although the characters and their designs, as well as some of the themes are also more than intriguing).


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#7 retroluffy13

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 06:39 AM


The protagonist being portrayed as imperfect, yet likable is far from new or innovative like I said, only Horikoshi manages to put a fresh spin on it by addressing this more clearly and detailing Deku's climb to greatness to make it seem not only satisfying but also realistic that he acquires the power and experience that he does. But "normal" dorky main characters such as Deku really aren't innovative in that sense.

well first off, I feel like your generalizing deku way to much by writing him off as the "dorky kid".  sure, he has dorky tendancies, and hes like, supposedly really smart, but deku to me comes off as more average then he does dorky per say.  and the innovation of his character, at least in terms of manga, come from the undertones of how much he understands about the world.  what other manga do you know that has the balls to start off by saying "the one thing I know about the world is that NOBODY is born equal", further expanding on this with the lore of how nearly everyone in the world has a quirk, except for a handful of people including the protagonist?  most manga typically try to portray they're main character as special, as something different the n the standard norm.  so right off the bat we begin the story with a much darker undertone, and its only when we get to the likes of deku trying to save Bakugou from the sludge monster that we get our first tast of anything resembling the standard shonen formula. 

 

hell, even the meeting with all might isn't what we expect it to be.  you take one look at the guy and you quickly write him off as some superman/captain America ripoff but as deku confronts him, we learn pretty fast that this int the case.  all might is sick, dying, nad only puts on a brave superman face for the public to see but in reality is massively depressed and jaded towards idealistic views.  when deku asks him if he thinks some quirkless kid could be a hero and all might flat out tells him no, you'r heart breaks because as a normal person you associate with this quirkless loser.

 


examples of Horikoshi playing the "standard" trope would be Deku saving Uraraka during the entrance exam, and then both of them getting into the school anyway due to their action being heroic. Despite being cliched, there is nothing unsatisfying or "asspully" about this scene, as All Might presents it perfectly, even calling out the cheesiness of it and calling out these tropes as the true essence of heroism.

I mean sure but the act of saving her is cliché BUT what exactly about the entrance exam is?  in fact the entire idea behind hero society is unique in of itself, because unlike most manga or hell, comic books in general, horikoshi goes one step forward and adds legitimate buracracy to the world.  lets use x men as an example.  sure Charles Xavier runs a school for mutant kind, but going to this school is not some pre-requisite for becoming a hero.  its an attention to detail most people would normally brush over because its easy to, but horikoshi never takes the easy route.  when deku saves uraka, unlike most stories where the author might build up tension by having deku do surprisingly well to the point where he might have legitimately won if not for the "damsel in distress", its very clear that deku was never going to win in the first place unless something like that had stepped in.  and even when we all expect him to get in anyways due to his heroics, and it all comes off as expected, it ends up making legitimate sense and isn't forced on the reader because again, this is a school for heros and you'd seriously doubt the merits of such a school if they DIDNT judge him at least a little bit based on his acts of heroics.

 

 

 


Another example would be Kouta (was his name right?), the kid that Deku befriended during training camp. His parents had died being heroes, and he refused to warm up to Deku until the latter saved him and showed him what being a hero about. Sounds familiar? To me it certainly echoes of a lot of kids we've seen in mangas such as Naruto, or One Piece (including its many anime filler arcs). And how was the muscle villain defefated by Deku? By him pulling out even more power than before, and calling it like 10000%

but unlike most manga where deku busting out "10000%" percent would have him portrayed in some kind of "greatest of all time light" here its used to highlight his inexperience with heroic matters because again, horikoshi takes it in a direction one might not expect the story to go by instead of immediately portraying him as some kind of gifted natural to this heroic business, deku always has to struggle to earn any little scrap he takes in.  and that burst of power comes at a very extreme cost in that because deku uses all his might on onelittle kid, he becomes unable to save his "friend" from being abducted by the enemy.  sure he was badass for that one single moment, but his inexperience ultimately has him paying a very realistic price in that, because his arms are now broken, he doesn't have the strength to reach out for bakugou when he needs deku the most.

 


Despite this, it was an awesome read because of the well-polished story-telling tying into Deku's wish to become a hero, as well as Kouta's own character and his relationship and view of heroes. Cliched as nothing else, but still amazing.

its really not as simple as all of that though, as ive just explained.  in a seires like Naruto, for example, Naruto pushes and pushes and pushes himself to save people and ninety nine percent of the time, dispite the odds, almost always comes out on top and portrayed as someone whos more innately talented then most would like to give him credit for.  the one time he doesn't, its because of sasukes own very strong ideals of the world and not because Naruto nessisarily did anything wrong.  here in boku, you see that though deku has merit, that doesn't make every single action he takes as objectively the right action.

 

 

 


Lots of character getting the focus and their own mini-arcs is also nothing new, but I definitely agree many of this manga's characters (in particular the classmates of Deku, but also the villains such as Shigaraki) are all characters strong enough to stand by their own almost, with lots of character traits and little regression. By this I mean that these characters aren't forced to interact with each other in a special way in other to remain relevant, but they can progress and act on their own in a sense, will not lacking the depth to make this seem weird.
 

what makes boku unique in this reguard is that all these charecters are given such layers of depth that normally you can only get by writing stories about every single character like say, how superman has friends like green lantern and wonder woman who can come into the story and have similar layers pf depth, but at the same time need they're own books to have this layer.  horikoshi does amazingly well in that somehow, he manages to never have one single character outshine another in terms of personality.  sure, ou got some background charecters like tail kid who don't get to do much, but hes a character whos not the standard like most manga might make him but instead the one dude who in the entire class of kids who doesn't get to stand out.  horikoshi even makes a joke later on in the story about how outright plain he is by making his room have no personality to it whn all the others do to at least some extent, save for ochako whos room also cocmes off as absurdly plain for a heroine.

 

 

 

 

Overall, my point is that I love this manga, and I think Horikoshi has a special kind of talent; but try explaining the plot or premise of this manga to your friends in order to make it seem unique (I have tried a few times), and you will find it sounds like any Shounen manga almost. What makes this work so great is not the story, any other mangaka could try to create something based on the same story, it's how the story-telling is set up in my opinion (although the characters and their designs, as well as some of the themes are also more than intriguing).

 

well I mean when you generalize sure.  its the story about a kid whos not special looking to become the number one hero in the world who, though h starts off as a loser and is generally considered a dead last loser until a mentor figure takes special interest in him and raises him up on his way towards becoming the greatest.  but when you get into the specifics of the story as well as the layer of depth to not only the lore but also characters is where you can clearly tell the difference between this nd a series like Naruto despite both having very generally similar broader plot points.  its the nuances that make it truly stand out as one of the best around and when you take a moment to actually expand on the plot makes it completely different then anything we've seen thus far.


Edited by retroluffy13, 24 March 2017 - 06:44 AM.

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#8 Fulmine

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 06:56 AM

I don't agree that's what realism means as well as what normal human or one-dimensional means, much less what being one-dimensional means (FT is one-dimensional? LOL. It's written horribly but that's different from its characters being one-dimensional or the story is one-dimensional). Sounds pretty sad to think that way. Also depends on how you define it Bakugou can be viewed as a completely white character, so far anw (has to do with BnHA's optimistic tone). Simply with flaws. Except that his flaws are very in-your-face and annoying. Unlike being a perverted protagonist which can be passed off as ''oh, it's comedy and fanservice''

 

But well, as far as tropes go, Horikoshi uses them very well. I wouldn't call it shounen deconstruction or that he screws it. He just employs them intelligently. The execution is smart and that is satisfying. I hardly think BnHA is innovative. There are many top-notch works that can twist tropes around, even better. Just that BnHA is in WSJ and it brings a super refreshing breath for those who have a fixed image/prejudice of WSJ shounen or shounen in general. Which isn't to say BnHA isn't good. It's very good, in fact. One of All Might's line when he told Deku he was accepted into Yuei demonstrates this pretty well, that it may sounds cheesy and whatnot but it is in the hero job description to save people LOL


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#9 Kid Frost

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 07:04 AM

I think MHA is really good and one of my favorites but I've never found it particularly realistic. It relies on typical shonen tropes (in addition to some superhero ones) as much as any other series, though it uses them well more often than not.

I'm not even sure what's meant by realistic as it pertains to discussion because I'm mostly just seeing negative comparisons to series like Fairy Tail and Naruto which seem like an easy targets. Instead if you compare MHA with Hunter x Hunter, which I think is better written and has characters that are just as strong, it becomes harder to make a case for it as being unique in it's tone. That's just another manga from the same magazine but if we extend the comparison to all anime / manga (which is what seems to be happening) I could come up with dozens of series that are more realistic so we need to concretely define what exactly we're talking about by realistic before any of us can come up with a cogent response. Are we talking about verisimilitude, usage of tropes, or something else entirely?
 


Edited by Kid Frost, 24 March 2017 - 07:04 AM.

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#10 retroluffy13

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 07:13 AM

I think MHA is really good and one of my favorites but I've never found it particularly realistic. It relies on typical shonen tropes (in addition to some superhero ones) as much as any other series, though it uses them well more often than not.

I'm not even sure what's meant by realistic as it pertains to discussion because I'm mostly just seeing negative comparisons to series like Fairy Tail and Naruto which seem like an easy targets. Instead if you compare MHA with Hunter x Hunter, which I think is better written and has characters that are just as strong, it becomes harder to make a case for it as being unique in it's tone. That's just another manga from the same magazine but if we extend the comparison to all anime / manga (which is what seems to be happening) I could come up with dozens of series that are more realistic so we need to concretely define what exactly we're talking about by realistic before any of us can come up with a cogent response. Are we talking about verisimilitude, usage of tropes, or something else entirely?
 

 

what I'm talking about specifically are the characters and the way they interact with the world around them as opposed to series like Naruto and onepiece as well as they're portrayal  in terms of characterization as well as the way they're personalities play off of each other in such situations.  see, I get that things like 'superhero world" and "giant, flashy exams" are typically seen fictional situations, but the way that these characters play these situations as well as the actions they take and the way they interact with the world around them is more realistic in terms of they're interactions with these particular fictional scenarios. 


 

 

 

But well, as far as tropes go, Horikoshi uses them very well. I wouldn't call it shounen deconstruction or that he screws it. He just employs them intelligently. The execution is smart and that is satisfying. I hardly think BnHA is innovative. There are many top-notch works that can twist tropes around, even better. Just that BnHA is in WSJ and it brings a super refreshing breath for those who have a fixed image/prejudice of WSJ shounen or shounen in general.

 

see now that's a fair point given I only read shonan so I'm not exactly an expert on anything that's not.  I just like what it brings to the genra in particular, particularly battle shonen.


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#11 Fulmine

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 07:29 AM


see now that's a fair point given I only read shonan so I'm not exactly an expert on anything that's not. I just like what it brings to the genra in particular, particularly battle shonen.

No, I mean even among shounen there are many that are ''realistic'' or/and ''trope-screwing''. Or simply, not caring about those qualities, they are super well-written.

Hoshi no Samidare is a good quick read. And of course, Kid Frost's recommendation HxH is the best in WSJ now IMO. Or, the obvious Fullmetal Alchemist is pretty much one of the most perfect manga out there.

 

 

 


what I'm talking about specifically are the characters and the way they interact with the world around them as opposed to series like Naruto and onepiece as well as they're portrayal in terms of characterization as well as the way they're personalities play off of each other in such situations. see, I get that things like 'superhero world" and "giant, flashy exams" are typically seen fictional situations, but the way that these characters play these situations as well as the actions they take and the way they interact with the world around them is more realistic in terms of they're interactions with these particular fictional scenarios.

Yeah, but what do you mean by realistic? I don't think Naruto is less realistic. It's just different and written worse.


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#12 retroluffy13

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 07:48 AM


No, I mean even among shounen there are many that are ''realistic'' or/and ''trope-screwing''. Or simply, not caring about those qualities, they are super well-written.
Hoshi no Samidare is a good quick read. And of course, Kid Frost's recommendation HxH is the best in WSJ now IMO. Or, the obvious Fullmetal Alchemist is pretty much one of the most perfect manga out there.
what I mean is that, in general, events that go down in the manga are more akin to actual human beings lives as opposed to a manga like you say, full metal alchemist, which relies very heavily on tragedy and drama in order to make the story more appealing to its readers.  you call it an "optimistic" ton e but from what I've gathered, most people will never live the kind of tragic lies al, end, mustang and the likes will ever live.  I'm not going to argue that there aren't people out there who live similarly tragic lives and that war torn nations don't exist, but at the same time it isn't the standard especially in todays modern, mostly first world setting.  you just don't see revolutions the likes of full metal alchemist as often as you used to say 2 hundred years ago, with countries like Syria being the obvious exception to the rule.  it functions as a great piece and commentary on the world in a war-like state, but not so much as what society is like in times of peace for very obvious reasons.

 


Yeah, but what do you mean by realistic? I don't think Naruto is less realistic. It's just different and written worse.
realistic in terms of things like characterization, society, and the way people interact with the world around them.  I obviously understand that hero societies don't exist, but heroes for sure do, and the fact that in this particular situation they've been likened to cops and firemen in particular is genuinely pretty interesting overall and makes the entire hero thing seem like a genuine plausibility given the lore we've been given.

 

as for your gripes with bakugou, id argue that while yes he does have a very standard way about him he generally never deviates from, he's not as simplistic as people give him credit for.  he's a character with extreme nuance and the way his backstory been set up, you can see how he got to be the way he is in comparison with a character like Naruto, similarly standard most of the time but with much less nuance.  you know everything about Naruto from the get go where as with something like my hero, horikoshi builds and lets the subtleties' sink in over time as opposed to leaving them flat and always in character.


 this is a music video I made for a friend of mine.  give it a listen.  the visuals are pretty dope

Spoiler


also some ear kandy
Spoiler

when you love something..  and I mean. really love it.  you fight for it for as long as you can until you cant stand any longer.  then when its all said and done, walk away with a smile hoping you did right.


#13 Chillman

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 10:33 AM


do you prefer your characters simple and one dimensional like has been previously established? 

 

That sounds a bit condescending. There's nothing wrong with a character being simple or being defined by one or two traits. It's about whether or not a writer can make that story entertaining.


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#14 retroluffy13

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 10:38 AM

That sounds a bit condescending. There's nothing wrong with a character being simple or being defined by one or two traits. It's about whether or not a writer can make that story entertaining.

no I added it in there because I know for a fact some people prefer they're storys like that.  tropy, campy, silly, easy to understand.  lol.  why do you think pople love one punch man?


 this is a music video I made for a friend of mine.  give it a listen.  the visuals are pretty dope

Spoiler


also some ear kandy
Spoiler

when you love something..  and I mean. really love it.  you fight for it for as long as you can until you cant stand any longer.  then when its all said and done, walk away with a smile hoping you did right.


#15 Fulmine

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 09:08 PM


what I mean is that, in general, events that go down in the manga are more akin to actual human beings lives as opposed to a manga like you say, full metal alchemist, which relies very heavily on tragedy and drama in order to make the story more appealing to its readers. you call it an "optimistic" ton e but from what I've gathered, most people will never live the kind of tragic lies al, end, mustang and the likes will ever live. I'm not going to argue that there aren't people out there who live similarly tragic lives and that war torn nations don't exist, but at the same time it isn't the standard especially in todays modern, mostly first world setting. you just don't see revolutions the likes of full metal alchemist as often as you used to say 2 hundred years ago, with countries like Syria being the obvious exception to the rule. it functions as a great piece and commentary on the world in a war-like state, but not so much as what society is like in times of peace for very obvious reasons.

Which isn't unrealistic or not actual human beings per se, is it? As you have admitted, things like that do exist (How many wars happened in history again? And it's not just wars that make people's lives miserable. Pretty sure a lot of things are still happening as we speak). So they are realistic, only that they are not easily related or identified with for many people (let call them ''average normal person'', for lack of better words). That means what you're arguing has nothing to do with realism and more about ''my life experience is this much and I'm more comfortable to see things in this part of the spectrum'' which is nothing wrong, of course, but let call it what it is rather than using a word that doesn't mean what you mean, which is also why I said it's very sad to define realism that way. Still, if you like to use it in such a loose sense, I don't mind. Just point it out for clarification.

 

On the other hand, if this is what you mean, I'm kinda baffled because I see no reason criticizing Naruto. There's a difference between saying ''I don't like this'' and saying ''this is bad'' and a difference between ''I don't like how this character acts'' and ''he/she's simple and one-dimensional''. Naruto is bad because it is written badly (of course, one can always argue otherwise). Not because of the subject matters it chooses to address. There's nothing inherently wrong about writing about wars or revenge or whatnot. It's how you execute them that matters. And so just like my second paragraph of my first post in this thread says, BnHA is amazing because it's written well. Very greatly-executed. And that should be the title of this thread: HOW WELL-WRITTEN BnHA IS (COMPARED TO SOME OTHER SHOUNEN DESPITE GOING A SIMILAR ROUTE). Has nothing to do with being realistic.

 

 


realistic in terms of things like characterization, society, and the way people interact with the world around them. I obviously understand that hero societies don't exist, but heroes for sure do, and the fact that in this particular situation they've been likened to cops and firemen in particular is genuinely pretty interesting overall and makes the entire hero thing seem like a genuine plausibility given the lore we've been given.

And somehow you think that's different from FMA's writing about war?...

 

 


as for your gripes with bakugou,

no I added it in there because I know for a fact some people prefer they're storys like that.  tropy, campy, silly, easy to understand.  lol.  why do you think pople love one punch man?

And you don't see the contradiction in your words?

Same question I always ask: Do you read? Where did I have a gripe? I only said Katchan can be viewed as a completely white character. Where did I say that's a bad/negative thing? See, you do think it's a bad thing and you use your standard to assume what I mean, which is uncanny because all you need to do when you read my post is just take the words as they are without assumption. Don't make more work for yourself LOL! Which is why Chillman's question above is spot-on and you shouldn't pretend you mean something else.

 

 


id argue that while yes he does have a very standard way about him he generally never deviates from, he's not as simplistic as people give him credit for. he's a character with extreme nuance and the way his backstory been set up, you can see how he got to be the way he is in comparison with a character like Naruto, similarly standard most of the time but with much less nuance. you know everything about Naruto from the get go where as with something like my hero, horikoshi builds and lets the subtleties' sink in over time as opposed to leaving them flat and always in character.

Flowery but in short it means you prefer the exposure of Katchan. I do, too (I also like Katchan much more than Naruto and hell, Naruto is IMO one of the worst protagonists I have ever read) but that doesn't make him more nuanced and less simplistic.


Spoiler Favorite male characters in manga/hwa/hua

#16 retroluffy13

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 09:28 PM

Which isn't unrealistic or not actual human beings per se, is it? As you have admitted, things like that do exist (How many wars happened in history again? And it's not just wars that make people's lives miserable. Pretty sure a lot of things are still happening as we speak). So they are realistic, only that they are not easily related or identified with for many people (let call them ''average normal person'', for lack of better words). That means what you're arguing has nothing to do with realism and more about ''my life experience is this much and I'm more comfortable to see things in this part of the spectrum'' which is nothing wrong, of course, but let call it what it is rather than using a word that doesn't mean what you mean, which is also why I said it's very sad to define realism that way. Still, if you like to use it in such a loose sense, I don't mind. Just point it out for clarification.

 

On the other hand, if this is what you mean, I'm kinda baffled because I see no reason criticizing Naruto. There's a difference between saying ''I don't like this'' and saying ''this is bad'' and a difference between ''I don't like how this character acts'' and ''he/she's simple and one-dimensional''. Naruto is bad because it is written badly (of course, one can always argue otherwise). Not because of the subject matters it chooses to address. There's nothing inherently wrong about writing about wars or revenge or whatnot. It's how you execute them that matters. And so just like my second paragraph of my first post in this thread says, BnHA is amazing because it's written well. Very greatly-executed. And that should be the title of this thread: HOW WELL-WRITTEN BnHA IS (COMPARED TO SOME OTHER SHOUNEN DESPITE GOING A SIMILAR ROUTE). Has nothing to do with being realistic.

 

 

 

 

And somehow you think that's different from FMA's writing about war?...

 

 

 

 

And you don't see the contradiction in your words?

Same question I always ask: Do you read? Where did I have a gripe? I only said Katchan can be viewed as a completely white character. Where did I say that's a bad/negative thing? See, you do think it's a bad thing and you use your standard to assume what I mean, which is uncanny because all you need to do when you read my post is just take the words as they are without assumption. Don't make more work for yourself LOL! Which is why Chillman's question above is spot-on and you shouldn't pretend you mean something else.

 

 

 

 

Flowery but in short it means you prefer the exposure of Katchan. I do, too (I also like Katchan much more than Naruto and hell, Naruto is IMO one of the worst protagonists I have ever read) but that doesn't make him more nuanced and less simplistic.

well Boku goes out of its way to focus on things like: bureaucracy, and even though it has a main character goes out of its way to make time for side characters and the like to a MUCH greater extent then  FMA does.  don't get me wrong i love fma, i think brotherhood is one of the greatest anime of all time and goes a long way in portraying the human condition in times of war but at the same time, its got flaws that Boku doesn't.  if fma were kmore like Boku, for example, we'd have gotten more focus on such things as how all became an official alchemist in the first place as well as the work they actually do.  but from what the series give us it leaves some glaring holes in the entire process such as how the entire general process works, how they get paid for they're services, how al lives his day to day life outside of the exciting parts, how different alchemists interact with each other, the technology of the time period outside of weapons and the likes, ect.  Boku hits all these points, and does so in such a way that it immerses you in the world to the point where you can actually imagine yourself living there.  hell, vigilantes takes it a step further and goes on to portray life outside of the law and establishes norm by showing us the day to day lives of characters we'd otherwise never get to see in the day to day lives of the hero's like Deku.

 

sure, you can argue that there's genuine realism in fma, but not to the same extent there is in Boku. that's just a fact.


 this is a music video I made for a friend of mine.  give it a listen.  the visuals are pretty dope

Spoiler


also some ear kandy
Spoiler

when you love something..  and I mean. really love it.  you fight for it for as long as you can until you cant stand any longer.  then when its all said and done, walk away with a smile hoping you did right.


#17 Narubi

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 09:31 PM

MHA is realistic and trope defying?

 

I like the series an all. But I don't see any sort of "realism", let alone anything that defies shounen tropes.

 

Honestly it's just like typical shounens, but put out in a better way then most of the others. 


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Show me the way to go home - I'm tired and I want to go to bed
I had a little drink about an hour ago - And it’s gone right to my head
Wherever I may roam - On land or sea or foam
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Show me the way to go home.

#18 retroluffy13

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 09:31 PM

MHA is realistic and trope defying?

 

I like the series an all. But I don't see any sort of "realism", let alone anything that defies shounen tropes.

 

Honestly it's just like typical shounens, but put out in a better way then most of the others. 

 

well Boku goes out of its way to focus on things like: bureaucracy, and even though it has a main character goes out of its way to make time for side characters and the like to a MUCH greater extent then  FMA does.  don't get me wrong i love fma, i think brotherhood is one of the greatest anime of all time and goes a long way in portraying the human condition in times of war but at the same time, its got flaws that Boku doesn't.  if fma were kmore like Boku, for example, we'd have gotten more focus on such things as how all became an official alchemist in the first place as well as the work they actually do.  but from what the series give us it leaves some glaring holes in the entire process such as how the entire general process works, how they get paid for they're services, how al lives his day to day life outside of the exciting parts, how different alchemists interact with each other, the technology of the time period outside of weapons and the likes, ect.  Boku hits all these points, and does so in such a way that it immerses you in the world to the point where you can actually imagine yourself living there.  hell, vigilantes takes it a step further and goes on to portray life outside of the law and establishes norm by showing us the day to day lives of characters we'd otherwise never get to see in the day to day lives of the hero's like Deku.

 

sure, you can argue that there's genuine realism in fma, but not to the same extent there is in Boku. that's just a fact.


 this is a music video I made for a friend of mine.  give it a listen.  the visuals are pretty dope

Spoiler


also some ear kandy
Spoiler

when you love something..  and I mean. really love it.  you fight for it for as long as you can until you cant stand any longer.  then when its all said and done, walk away with a smile hoping you did right.


#19 Narubi

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 09:46 PM

@retroluffy13 - An ...... so?

 

Still not seeing what makes MHA greatly realistic. Let alone anything that says it defies shounen tropes. 

 

All your post mostly went on about if how you think MHA is a better work then things like FMA. 


Show me the way to go home - I'm tired and I want to go to bed
I had a little drink about an hour ago - And it’s gone right to my head
Wherever I may roam - On land or sea or foam
You can always hear me singing this song
Show me the way to go home.

#20 retroluffy13

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 09:51 PM

@retroluffy13 - An ...... so?

 

Still not seeing what makes MHA greatly realistic. Let alone anything that says it defies shounen tropes. 

 

All your post mostly went on about if how you think MHA is a better work then things like FMA. 

its realistic by the standards of the universe.  ie.  what i mean to say by realism is that it perfectly portrays the rules of the universe in such a way that you could believe "huh.  if this wre real and ourn world was more like theres, i could see this all working out in this way"


 this is a music video I made for a friend of mine.  give it a listen.  the visuals are pretty dope

Spoiler


also some ear kandy
Spoiler

when you love something..  and I mean. really love it.  you fight for it for as long as you can until you cant stand any longer.  then when its all said and done, walk away with a smile hoping you did right.





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