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Boruto Chapter 16 Discussion


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#41 Tokoya

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 04:44 PM

how about naruto sucks at using his tools.

He used the ultimate tool pretty well in this chapter =P


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#42 waleuska

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 05:01 PM

If the Kyuubi is his tool then he really doesn't, as evidenced by pretty much everything he did during the last half of the series  :lolxg: He grasped SM, KCM, KCM2, and Six Paths Mode fairly quickly, along with using the chakras of the other Bijuu as well. And this is Kyuubi, who was constantly being described as a being of pure hatred, with even the freaking Sage of Six Paths being happy at how Naruto had managed to tame all of it. Not that any of this has to mean you like Naruto as a character, but credit where its due.

that is him learning stuff but that doesn't mean he use those tools correctly.

 

Here is a great example of naruto vs garaa.

 

Garaa part 1 only lost to naruto because he turn into his tails form. If garra fights naruto like he fought against lee he would have destroy him. Now lets ignore an all out fight between those two and look at their tools.

 

Garaa have control of sand and use it for both offense and defense. You know what else he did he made a back armor of sand to protect his body. one that was invisible to the naked eye. So even if you got past one he was smart enough to have a back up plan.

 

Now lets look at naruto's most use ninjutus, shadow clones. The only time i think he use them correctly was the battle vs the lady with the k. He doesn't improve his tijutus that would help with the clones in a fight. He doesn't use them to tire out an opponent because he always on the front lines. Naruto could have easily beat neji if he just threw wave after wave of clones at him. Or better yet if naruto knew how to fight, that would have made the clones better.

 

Garaa had a trump card with his broken abilities. Naruto best weapon and he use it like a moron.

 

And to prove my point again look at naruto vs kakuzu, there was zero reason for the original naruto to get hurt by the wind rasengun.

 

good on naruto for learning new crap, but that doesn't mean he use his tool effectively.


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#43 Ace1225

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 08:43 PM

that is him learning stuff but that doesn't mean he use those tools correctly.

 

Literally nothing you said applies to SM Naruto, KCM Naruto, KCM2 Naruto, Bijuu Mode Naruto, or Six Paths Naruto. As an example, let me go into how Naruto used Sage Mode effectively.

 

Sage Mode: First use of it is during the Pein fight, during which Naruto 1)shows up to the fight with 5 Toad Summons to aid him in battle (An example of him using another tool of his effectively and probably one of the smartest use of the Summoning Technique in the entire series), and 2)Naruto leaves 3 Kage Bunshin at Myobokuzan to absorb Natural Energy for him. This second measure allows him to get around one of the drawbacks of Sage Mode, which is the fact that you have to be still to absorb Natural Energy. By having Clones sit aside during a battle, Naruto is therefore able to instantly replenish his Sage Chakra/Mode in the heat of battle. He later uses the exact same tactic during his final fight with Sasuke at the Valley of the End. Furthermore, he's shown practicing Sage Mode after this, in order to increase the speed at which he can gain Natural Energy, which goes on to pay off during the 4th Ninja War at key moments. A final improvement is the ability to combine Sage Mode with KCM, which comes in handy when he gains the upgrade from Hagoromo later. Of course we can go more specific into his use of Sage Mode's sensory abilities as well, such as during his fight with the 3rd Raikage.

 

EDIT: In regards to Taijutsu, i'm fairly certain that Naruto does massively improve in that department over the course of the series, hence him being able to handle and react to Taijutsu experts like the Raikage and Sasuke. His Clones also clearly improve with him, since it was his Clones that won the war. Agreed on Naruto not using Clones to wear opponents down, but honestly I think that it should go without saying that that's never done because it'd be boring and honestly doesn't even fit Naruto's personality.


Edited by Ace1225, 12 October 2017 - 08:48 PM.

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#44 Narubi

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 08:59 PM


he's shown no skill with Genjutsu outside of having it (Unlike Itachi at least)

 

I disagree. He's shown good skill in way of Genjutsu. However, yes, Itachi is at the top for Genjutsu skill. But honestly if you compare everyone to him, then they all pale in comparison. Sure some characters had a powerful hax genjutsu in their arsenal, but one technique doesn't mean your very skilled in the art an it's many applications. I mean just cause I can make good grilled cheese, doesn't mean I'm a five star chef that can make all sorts of quality dishes (lol). 

 

An while nobody was shown being as skilled at Genjutsu like Itachi was (just like none of the actual Uchiha's, showed much in their reading/copy abilities like Kakashi who only had the eye of a Uchiha, for .... erm ... reasons ..... *shrug*). That doesn't mean certain characters who had knowledge and ability in the art, themselves wasn't skilled in some way or didn't show some measure of it. In this case, Sasuke post time skip used Genjutsu at various times that worked well to his benefit and advantage, more or less well timed an skillfully.  


Edited by Narubi, 12 October 2017 - 09:00 PM.

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#45 Ultrafragor

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 09:21 PM

this thread is like a flower growing out of the cracked soil in a desert


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#46 Ace1225

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 10:19 PM

I disagree. He's shown good skill in way of Genjutsu. However, yes, Itachi is at the top for Genjutsu skill. 

Yes, with the Sharingan. Without the Sharingan he's shown no skill with Genjutsu.


I can't force you to believe me that's your choice. People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That's how they define "reality". But what does it mean to be "correct" and "true?" Merely vague concepts...their reality may all be a mirage. Can we consider them to simply be living in their own world, shaped by their beliefs?-Itachi Uchiha


#47 Narubi

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 12:09 AM

Yes, with the Sharingan. Without the Sharingan he's shown no skill with Genjutsu.

 

So? Aside from a few or less instances, everything Itachi did was Sharingan. 

 

In any case, genjutsu is genjutsu, regardless of the manner it's brought out. An Sasuke has done notable feats with genjutsu. ;)


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#48 Ace1225

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 06:54 AM

So? Aside from a few or less instances, everything Itachi did was Sharingan. 

 

In any case, genjutsu is genjutsu, regardless of the manner it's brought out. An Sasuke has done notable feats with genjutsu. ;)

So, that was literally my point, which you chose to reply too  :lolxg: Sounds like you didn't read the entire post, which really wasn't about Sasuke anyways, but about criticizing characters for only being who they are because of certain abilities or tools. I don't personally care in the slightest if Sasuke uses Sharingan for Genjutsu and obviously he's still great with it.

 

EDIT: While people are coming and going from here though

 

 

Itachi vs Killer Bee, who wins, why, and how difficult is said win?


Edited by Ace1225, 13 October 2017 - 07:08 AM.

I can't force you to believe me that's your choice. People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That's how they define "reality". But what does it mean to be "correct" and "true?" Merely vague concepts...their reality may all be a mirage. Can we consider them to simply be living in their own world, shaped by their beliefs?-Itachi Uchiha


#49 Narubi

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 09:52 AM


So, that was literally my point, which you chose to reply too  Sounds like you didn't read the entire post,

 

I did read it all. Just looking back, I misinterpreted that part about Genjutsu. Thought you were just saying overall he had no skill in it. 

 

My bad. ;)


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#50 paka

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 03:32 PM


Now lets look at naruto's most use ninjutus, shadow clones. The only time i think he use them correctly was the battle vs the lady with the k. He doesn't improve his tijutus that would help with the clones in a fight. He doesn't use them to tire out an opponent because he always on the front lines. Naruto could have easily beat neji if he just threw wave after wave of clones at him. Or better yet if naruto knew how to fight, that would have made the clones better.

 

 

If I remember correctly - Naruto tried this on several fights and they all got destroyed with ease and minimum loss/effort...he then adjusted and used them to distract/set-up rasengan...your point makes sense though especially against weaker opponents when he was still young

 

Naruto did improve at a much faster rate after he got properly trained...Sasuke walked into the academy with all the basics already mastered - Kudos to Naruto for what he had to do/did to surpass Sasuke


Edited by paka, 13 October 2017 - 03:40 PM.

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#51 Ultrafragor

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 08:37 PM

So, that was literally my point, which you chose to reply too  :lolxg: Sounds like you didn't read the entire post, which really wasn't about Sasuke anyways, but about criticizing characters for only being who they are because of certain abilities or tools. I don't personally care in the slightest if Sasuke uses Sharingan for Genjutsu and obviously he's still great with it.

 

EDIT: While people are coming and going from here though

 

 

Itachi vs Killer Bee, who wins, why, and how difficult is said win?

 

Depends

 

is this the part of the manga where a perfect jinchuriki can't be put under genjutsu or the part where Obito put Yagura under genjutsu and used him as a puppet for years?

 

Bee's full speed should be beyond Itachi. He was intercepting V2 A without having on a bijuu cloak. Kishi broke him, like so many other things in the manga


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#52 Strobacaxi

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 02:21 PM


is this the part of the manga where a perfect jinchuriki can't be put under genjutsu or the part where Obito put Yagura under genjutsu and used him as a puppet for years?

 

MS genjutsus also affect perfect Jinchuurikis. Itachi was capable of using tsukoyomi on Bee and there was nothing 8-tails could do. Kakashi/old sand woman mentioned this when they met the Itachi clone IIRC Which is why no one could save Kakashi and Sasuke by just pushing chakra into them

 

Bee doesn't stand a chance. He also can't beat the unbreakable shield or defend the unblockable sword.


Bee's full speed should be beyond Itachi. He was intercepting V2 A without having on a bijuu cloak. Kishi broke him, like so many other things in the manga
 

I didn't have that feeling when they met edo Itachi and Nagato honestly. Neither Bee or Naruto were too fast for either Nagato or Itachi

Itachi blocked a lightning bolt.... is reaction speed is absurdly good.


Edited by Strobacaxi, 14 October 2017 - 02:23 PM.

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