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One Piece Chapter 893 Discussion


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#81 D.Hyuga

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 08:52 AM


So it's more like a match-up matter here, not necessarily Luffy is still below Top Commander level. He's already on it or perhaps even above with G4.

 

Luffy won against Cracker with sucker punch, after 11h and with almost perfect match up and with help of Nami and Baum.

And now he should be better than Katakuri, which is stronger than Smoothie which is stronger than Cracker? No it is not just coo, Luffy is not better in anything else, Katakuri's coo is just making this fight underwhelming. Luffy vs Katakuri(no coo involved) would be 1:5 odds, Katakuri with coo is 100% victory for Katakuri. That is the difference between best of Yonko crew and Luffy.

Luffy wouldn't stand a chance even against Marco, because Luffy's main ablity is endurance and endurance is something Marco has in abundance. We don't know who is Kaido top dog, but Jack as 1of3 top fighters is also too much for Luffy.  Base Dog=base cat=Jack>>>almost dead cat>>>Begge

And I deem Beckman the strongest yonko commander.



#82 Saya

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 11:00 AM

Prepare your tissues for Dogtooth's future death.

#83 Scorpion2k4u

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 11:39 AM

I'm pretty sure everyone and their mama who wanna make name for themselves in the NW use CoA and CoO. It depends how good they are of course but Skypiea arc showed how big it was to be able to read their opponents movements and now again with Katakuri so it's pretty clear that you aren't beating anyone who can evade your movements endlessly, even mighty glaciers like Jack or else they just get kicked around until they finally exhaust themselves.

Also.

?



It has been it pretty clear in this fight that Katakuri beats Luffy in near every regard. Speed or strength, Luffy's inferior. (heh) If there is one thing Luffy beats Katakuri it's endurance.

And I don't believe either that Luffy will beat Kaidou by himself, way to fucking early to take out one of the strongest characters in the OP-verse 1v1. There are other characters, most notably Kidd, who are definitely going to want to take a bite out of Kaidou so it's almost definitely gonna be team effort. And I personally don't think Luffy should beat any of the Yonkou 1v1 until he faces Blackbeard.

The thing is though that if Luffy doesn't defeat a single yonkou by himself besides BB then I'm not shure if he can be called PK.

And his determination is to defeat all of them because he knows that he needs to do that in order to earn that title.

I'm not saying that he will defeat all of them alone. But he will have to defeat them in a way that he is the one to bring them down and do what the others couldn't do.

I mean so far Luffy often didn't fight the main enemy 1:1 and defeated them but he also didn't enter those fights at 100% either.
 

Well u got a point but going by how Oda has handled OP fights so far and going by the fact that there now is Luffy +3powerhouses (Zoro, JInbei, Sanji) i think the 3 calamities are meant for them to defeat while Luffy tagteams Kaidou with Kidd, Law and Marco (perhaps even Drake as well). Could also be though that Apoo is reserved for Kidd though, since he might want revenge.

I am so confused why Oda did let Brook and Chopper go to WCI. I mean Brook (even though certainly MVP of the arc) for me is the perfect match for Apoo and i see him improving immensely against him, just like i can see Chopper becoming a real fighter and tank as well as COA user there. Even before WCI started i wondered why Chopper would go to BM since he can learn about regeneration of Zoans and Minks in Wano as well as improve all his base stats in consistent fighting against a crew which seems to consists entirely of brawlers....I mean why gave an SN who uses sound/music and not let Brook become better by having to face him? Why not let Chopper a Zoan user learn from Zoans users within Kaidous crew? Moreover he could heal them, just like Law when they are fighting deliberate battles....Chopper already "fell in love" with/has affections for a certain Mink....moreover what CHopper generally needs are to better his stats and get CoA in order to become a real asset to the crew and the enemies they have to face.... In WCI Chopper has been pretty much a none-factor so far if u ask me.....so far he is the most disappointing equal to Sanji this arc....


I like the idea of Kid going after Apoo. But I definitely see why brook could be a great opponent of Apoo as well.

I think that chopper can still grow on wano. The characters, aside from t/s, only grow on screen anayways. So if chopper would be in wano right now, by the time we readers catch up to him, nothing would have happened.

They should all have Haki now anyway if you relay think about it. If it goes on like this than Luffy will be PK with half his crew not having haki. And every enemy they face in the NW has haki.
 

That half-dead guy didn't even use his Gear4 trump card...
CoO is the second rarest Haki type (CoA is the most ubiquitous). So if Kaidou's Commanders aren't CoO users then G4 would do well. After all CoO is the single thing Katakuri has over Luffy.

So it's more like a match-up matter here, not necessarily Luffy is still below Top Commander level. He's already on it or perhaps even above with G4.


Well Kataguri outclasses Luffy in basically every aspect. But granted Kataguri 's CoO is like a cheat code and without it Luffy would have better chances by far. Wouldn't be the first time that Luffy defeats someone who is faster and stronger.

So as soon as the CoO gap closes enough then Luffy will have a fair chance especially if he uses G4.

I wouldn't call CoO the second rarest form of haki though. It's just sth you don't realy know if it is used or not. And it's by far the hardest to draw. I mean CoA u only have to draw black fists/feet. CoC you either let someone faint or let someone comment that it is used.

To always comment if CoO is used or draw it so that it is absolutely obvious isn't that easy. I personaly think that anybody who uses CoA also uses CoO just that one is easy to see and the other not so much.

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#84 capu

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 12:11 PM


The thing is though that if Luffy doesn't defeat a single yonkou by himself besides BB then I'm not shure if he can be called PK.

Not so sure about that one. I.e. If Luffy were to defeat Kaidou and his forces with all the allies he currently has/we know of (Minks, Samurai/Ninja, SH fleet, WB remnants, Heart pirates, most likely Kidd and possibly Drake) then goes to defeat i.e. BM or Shanks with only Heart pirates (or Firetank pirates, hopefully Beges crew will become permanent ally, with Law going seperate way after Wano in order to become some kind of WB, although weaker, as to say no real equal like WB was to Roger) + SHfleet there would still be a huge progress to be seen here. Afterwards the SHs +SHfleet soloing BB+fleet would be the real deal, and still make it believeable to the SHs to finally outdo all that came before (including GR+crew), it would still justify for them to be the center of all the opworld has to offer. 

Moreover the SHs defeating the 2nd yonkou with lesser support and the last yonkou alone, would (what i would love to see) still leave room for another SN alliance to take down a yonkou for themselves and thus make a coming clash between said SN alliance and the SHs still available. I mean who would care about the SHs trashing 3 or mayhaps even 4 SN crews without them having proven to stand on equal ground by having defeated a yonkou as well?

 

 

And his determination is to defeat all of them because he knows that he needs to do that in order to earn that title.
 

I honeslty cant see Luffy fighting Shanks. If the SHs ever were to clash against the Red Hair pirates i really dont see Zoro not intercepting demanding to fight Shanks for himself. Zoro already stated that he would "betray" Luffy if he ever were to stand between him and achieving his dream, which is to become SSM! I dont see Zoro not considering Shanks as a stepping stone either if they ever would clash, since he should know about Shanks from Mihawk. Then again pretty much every important swordsman we saw clashed with Zoro, i dont Oda breakin this habit, especially not when talking about a swordsman of that lvl.

 


I think that chopper can still grow on wano. The characters, aside from t/s, only grow on screen anayways. So if chopper would be in wano right now, by the time we readers catch up to him, nothing would have happened.

I see that might be true. I dont object ur point, but i always thought that Oda will first show what the missing SHs did in Wano (thus show a seperate story with only them and what they did, similar to the WCI crew now, just not as thorough). With only afterwards showing the reunion.

 


They should all have Haki now anyway

Doubtful. We know that Usoop awakened his CoO (if it was that) at DR. He did not have CoA vs. CC, otherwise (unless too weak, which at that point would have been pointed out imo)  he would not have needed kairoseki in the first place. And since the DR scene made clear that CoO, which considering Usoops fearful character and his unwillingness to fight melee battle in normal circumstances, is the best suited haki type for him currently and CoA will come after that, when his enemies are so powerful, that his usual bullets dont do enough damage to take down the enemy, thus CoA needed.

Luffy made clear that one needs to be pushed beyond ones limits in order for haki to awaken/manifest (Ace being executed at MF, now in Katakuri fight). Usoops moment of being pushed to the edge was when he feared to forget all about his captain, which drove him beyond all he previously experienced, and which led to his CoO to awaken.

 

Chopper is just like that with the difference that his moment of being pushed too  far has not yet come onscreen, which is why i dont see him having learned about haki at all! 

 

Neither do i see Franky, Robin or Nami to have experienced anything as grave as what it needs to be in order to understand the dormant power of haki.

 

Although i dont really think that Franky, being as smart as he is, and mayhaps being able to use /implant Kairoseki into himself/his weapons, will really need it. CoO he might do with sensors or similar stuff, CoA with Kairoseki, of which we already know that is also provides a lot of tankyness, dont see him to ever get CoC.

 

Nami might get CoO but CoA i dont see coming with her honestly. Her attacks are based on elemental stuff, ergo i think she,  being as smart as she is, will find a way in order to even deal with certain logia, by countering with weather-/elemental science , just like she did with Monet. Those she cant counter with her skills might be fought by either Chopper, Franky, Robin Usoop.  

 

Robin is different, she has her limbs to provide her the vision of CoO, but perhaps she will get it, CoA i am pretty sure she will get later on, since her limbs are  vulnerable too attacks, empowering them with CoA might be a good idea in order for her to become far more useful. 

 

Honestly i would really like Oda to do it like that (meaning notgiving all SHs all (or main2) haki types) but to let every SH find a way to deal with certain enemies their own, in a way that suits their individual skills best and shows how each and every SH is a sepearate entity with his very own strenghts and weaknesses. It would also underline how they need one another and how effective they are as a whole and how every single one of them is the reason that Luffy eventually is even able to achieve his dream. They speicalizing in different areas is also a part of what makes them so effective since no matter which enemy they come across they either have the wits, the raw power or the specialisation to deal with him/her/them.  

 


If it goes on like this than Luffy will be PK with half his crew not having haki.

That is true. Only M4 having haki seems highly unlikely for the future PKs crew. At EOS no SH should not be a very powerful enemy who is at least low shicki lvl. Thus they need their ways to fight everyone there is, with excepttions just supporting the generel rule. I mean even Usoop stated that there are enemies even Luffy is powerless against, and that claim i would like to stay true until the EOS and beyond. I too believe that many of them will have at least 1 haki type with making up for the missing/weak haki parts by other techs or by simply tagteaming, if need be. I would not rule out Franky going a different way though, just like i would not rule out Nami to fight logias without CoA but by simply countering their element, i.e.: Nami fights Croc with water, Akainu with water, Aokiji with fire/heat, earth-DF-user with water or wind or lighting or whatever. Nami might also be capable in the future to actually take away the air to breath just like CC did. I mean all Paramecia still should need to fear lighting, if struck by it, so i dont think it a necessity for her to get CoA. CoO i see her getting though. 

 


And every enemy they face in the NW has haki.

Haki aint needed to defeat a haki user though. Brute strength is enough as can be seen in Luffy vs Boa sisters. Thus i suspect that lighting (elemental attacks from Nami, or rockets / lasers from Franky, or fighting from Chopper etc.) should also be enough to overcome someones CoA defense, even if significantly stronger than ones own haki (if existant), as long as the attack itself is of high enough power/lvl. 


Edited by capu, 06 February 2018 - 12:29 PM.


#85 captain kidd

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 12:15 PM

Prepare your tissues for Dogtooth's future death.


Why would dogtooth become the first villain to die?
Also why would that make me sad?
 
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#86 Fulmine

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 12:49 PM


Luffy won against Cracker with sucker punch, after 11h and with almost perfect match up and with help of Nami and Baum.

Sucker punch? Do you even know what that means? None of Luffy's attacks that landed on Cracker is sucker hit.

 

Yeah, that doesn't mean he wouldn't win without that match-up. We don't see how this whole 11 hours happened. It could just be a gag fight where Luffy ate biscuit, threw some punches then ran then ate, threw punches, ran. He may not even have used G4.

 

 

 

 


And now he should be better than Katakuri, which is stronger than Smoothie which is stronger than Cracker?

Top Commanders are more than just Katakuri...

 

 

 

 


No it is not just coo, Luffy is not better in anything else, Katakuri's coo is just making this fight underwhelming. Luffy vs Katakuri(no coo involved) would be 1:5 odds, Katakuri with coo is 100% victory for Katakuri. That is the difference between best of Yonko crew and Luffy.

Yeah, that's why Katakuri got sent flying by G4. And couldn't hit Base/G2Luffy when the latter decided to focus on dodging despite having CoO.

 

 

 

 


Luffy wouldn't stand a chance even against Marco, because Luffy's main ablity is endurance and endurance is something Marco has in abundance.

No, we don't know that. It's regeneration. Endurance would be when Marco endures attacks without his fruit.

 

 

 

 


We don't know who is Kaido top dog, but Jack as 1of3 top fighters is also too much for Luffy. Base Dog=base cat=Jack>>>almost dead cat>>>Begge

And I deem Beckman the strongest yonko commander.

Jack is equal to Base Dog/Cat when? He's obviously superior. Edit: oh, and sure, Dog and Cat weren't in Sulong form but Jack isn't shown to be in Hybrid Zoan form either.

 

And well, why the hell are Base Dog/Cat too much for Luffy? For all we know Luffy can also beat Bege

 

A guy whose only feat is beating fodder and having CoA good enough to harm Admirals. The former means nothing at this level and the latter is like any Top Commander we have seen fighting or at least Jozu. That says a lot about your logic.

 

 

 

 

 


It's just sth you don't realy know if it is used or not.

Nah, Oda informed us one way or another when it is used. Even if he forgot in fodders' case or in MFWar where everything is clustered, he should still remember when it's major fighters in later arcs like DD, Cracker, and obviously Luffy himself. And so far it's been plot-convenience only.

 

 

 

 


CoC you either let someone faint or let someone comment that it is used.

To always comment if CoO is used or draw it so that it is absolutely obvious isn't that easy. I personaly think that anybody who uses CoA also uses CoO just that one is easy to see and the other not so much.

LOL no. You can just say it like a technqiue's names (like how in SKypiea Mantra is said) so nothing hard there. If Luffy can say Hardening then he can say CoO. Or like in Katakuri's case, just say beforehand he/she is a CoO user. That doesn't mean every act of dodging uses CoO but it is a nice head-up.

 

 

 

Why would dogtooth become the first villain to die?
Also why would that make me sad?

You forgot Roger. That devil who terrified the whole world LOL

 

Because finally people realize Top Commanders are worthless next to Admirals and Yonkou. You cry happily. It takes so long.


 


I'm pretty sure everyone and their mama who wanna make name for themselves in the NW use CoA and CoO. It depends how good they are of course

Yep and DD sucks at it or doesn't even have it and he's without a doubt one of the strongest NW pirates.

 

 


?

Spoiler



It has been it pretty clear in this fight that Katakuri beats Luffy in near every regard. Speed or strength, Luffy's inferior. (heh) If there is one thing Luffy beats Katakuri it's endurance.

And later Katakuri got thrown around and coughed blood by G4 (not just hurting his hands) so Luffy's CoA got much stronger in the span of few seconds? That scene only shows BaseLuffy's CoA punch is weaker than Katakuri's CoA Strength Mochi. That's all there is to it. The CoA assessment is completely arbitrary by Katakuri.

 

Actually only strength. Speed-wise Katakuri is actually shown to be very insufficient. And his strength is only better than G3. G4 though... So like I said, this is like saying a guy beats Super Saiyan 2 Goku in every aspect. Well, big deal, he gets clobbered by SS3, Blue and God. So indeed, overall, CoO is the single reason why Katakuri is beating Luffy. It's the only stat whose superiority actually matters. Hence the only real advantage. A bunch of better stats aren't advantages if they can't put you in a favorable position (that's what advantage means). They would just be empty numbers you can brag about. Refers to the Goku example above. Being better than Super Saiyan 2 Goku is hardly the same as being overall stronger than Goku.

 

From what we have seen, Katakuri is still overall stronger than Luffy because of his CoO. Any other advantage stops being an advantage when G4 is brought out unless being sent flying with blood is not evidence of being weaker (well, in which case DD gets a boost LOL)


Edited by Fulmine, 06 February 2018 - 12:46 PM.

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#87 Deathkingdome

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 12:53 PM

That half-dead guy didn't even use his Gear4 trump card...

CoO is the second rarest Haki type (CoA is the most ubiquitous). So if Kaidou's Commanders aren't CoO users then G4 would do well. After all CoO is the single thing Katakuri has over Luffy.

 

So it's more like a match-up matter here, not necessarily Luffy is still below Top Commander level. He's already on it or perhaps even above with G4.

Katakuri is faster, stronger, and uses his DF better than Luffy. He could follow Luffy´s G4 speed. Besides Katakuri´s armament haki is better than Luffy´s. 



#88 Fulmine

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 01:03 PM

Katakuri is faster, stronger, and uses his DF better than Luffy. He could follow Luffy´s G4 speed. Besides Katakuri´s armament haki is better than Luffy´s. 

Already addressed.


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#89 captain kidd

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 02:04 PM

Sucker punch? Do you even know what that means? None of Luffy's attacks that landed on Cracker is sucker hit.

Yeah, that doesn't mean he wouldn't win without that match-up. We don't see how this whole 11 hours happened. It could just be a gag fight where Luffy ate biscuit, threw some punches then ran then ate, threw punches, ran. He may not even have used G4.




Top Commanders are more than just Katakuri...




Yeah, that's why Katakuri got sent flying by G4. And couldn't hit Base/G2Luffy when the latter decided to focus on dodging despite having CoO.




No, we don't know that. It's regeneration. Endurance would be when Marco endures attacks without his fruit.




Jack is equal to Base Dog/Cat when? He's obviously superior. Edit: oh, and sure, Dog and Cat weren't in Sulong form but Jack isn't shown to be in Hybrid Zoan form either.

And well, why the hell are Base Dog/Cat too much for Luffy? For all we know Luffy can also beat Bege

A guy whose only feat is beating fodder and having CoA good enough to harm Admirals. The former means nothing at this level and the latter is like any Top Commander we have seen fighting or at least Jozu. That says a lot about your logic.





Nah, Oda informed us one way or another when it is used. Even if he forgot in fodders' case or in MFWar where everything is clustered, he should still remember when it's major fighters in later arcs like DD, Cracker, and obviously Luffy himself. And so far it's been plot-convenience only.




LOL no. You can just say it like a technqiue's names (like how in SKypiea Mantra is said) so nothing hard there. If Luffy can say Hardening then he can say CoO. Or like in Katakuri's case, just say beforehand he/she is a CoO user. That doesn't mean every act of dodging uses CoO but it is a nice head-up.



You forgot Roger. That devil who terrified the whole world LOL

Because finally people realize Top Commanders are worthless next to Admirals and Yonkou. You cry happily. It takes so long.
 

Yep and DD sucks at it or doesn't even have it and he's without a doubt one of the strongest NW pirates.


And later Katakuri got thrown around and coughed blood by G4 (not just hurting his hands) so Luffy's CoA got much stronger in the span of few seconds? That scene only shows BaseLuffy's CoA punch is weaker than Katakuri's CoA Strength Mochi. That's all there is to it. The CoA assessment is completely arbitrary by Katakuri.

Actually only strength. Speed-wise Katakuri is actually shown to be very insufficient. And his strength is only better than G3. G4 though... So like I said, this is like saying a guy beats Super Saiyan 2 Goku in every aspect. Well, big deal, he gets clobbered by SS3, Blue and God. So indeed, overall, CoO is the single reason why Katakuri is beating Luffy. It's the only stat whose superiority actually matters. Hence the only real advantage. A bunch of better stats aren't advantages if they can't put you in a favorable position (that's what advantage means). They would just be empty numbers you can brag about. Refers to the Goku example above. Being better than Super Saiyan 2 Goku is hardly the same as being overall stronger than Goku.

From what we have seen, Katakuri is still overall stronger than Luffy because of his CoO. Any other advantage stops being an advantage when G4 is brought out unless being sent flying with blood is not evidence of being weaker (well, in which case DD gets a boost LOL)



Lol you know i consider all pirates villains.

hahaha, you know i am in it for the long haul, i will cry my "i knew i was right" tears when usopp reveals he Doesn't have coo.
Until that day i have to save my tissues. This "worst ever flue season" has missed me so far....but i am not letting my guard down....
 
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#90 DrugzRule

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 02:52 PM

The thing is though that if Luffy doesn't defeat a single yonkou by himself besides BB then I'm not shure if he can be called PK.

And his determination is to defeat all of them because he knows that he needs to do that in order to earn that title.

I'm not saying that he will defeat all of them alone. But he will have to defeat them in a way that he is the one to bring them down and do what the others couldn't do.

I mean so far Luffy often didn't fight the main enemy 1:1 and defeated them but he also didn't enter those fights at 100% either.

If Luffy leads the battles that'd cause the downfall of 3 of the pirate emperors I think he has "earned" his right to be a pirate king. Though it's more about getting to Raftel the way I understand it. I also see Kaidou as Kid's only real shot he has on a pirate emperor, hence why I think he needs at least to play the wingman for Luffy against Kaidou, similar to Law against Doflamingo. After beating Kaidou, which Luffy will get most of the credit, he will repeat his strategy against Big Mom with before having a 1v1 with BB pirates who at this will be the only real competition to SH for the Pirate King title after BB kills off Red-Hair and possibly the Revolutionaries. Once he does that there's no one left to compete with Luffy.

 

Yep and DD sucks at it or doesn't even have it and he's without a doubt one of the strongest NW pirates.

Don't blame me for Oda being forgetful :P

 

 

And later Katakuri got thrown around and coughed blood by G4 (not just hurting his hands) so Luffy's CoA got much stronger in the span of few seconds? That scene only shows BaseLuffy's CoA punch is weaker than Katakuri's CoA Strength Mochi. That's all there is to it. The CoA assessment is completely arbitrary by Katakuri.

 

Actually only strength. Speed-wise Katakuri is actually shown to be very insufficient. And his strength is only better than G3. G4 though... So like I said, this is like saying a guy beats Super Saiyan 2 Goku in every aspect. Well, big deal, he gets clobbered by SS3, Blue and God. So indeed, overall, CoO is the single reason why Katakuri is beating Luffy. It's the only stat whose superiority actually matters. Hence the only real advantage. A bunch of better stats aren't advantages if they can't put you in a favorable position (that's what advantage means). They would just be empty numbers you can brag about. Refers to the Goku example above. Being better than Super Saiyan 2 Goku is hardly the same as being overall stronger than Goku.

 

From what we have seen, Katakuri is still overall stronger than Luffy because of his CoO. Any other advantage stops being an advantage when G4 is brought out unless being sent flying with blood is not evidence of being weaker (well, in which case DD gets a boost LOL)

Honestly, I don't even count G4 for these things cuz it's not something Luffy can use whenever he wants (see Luffy's bravado moment with Big Mom at the wedding). It is not enough for Luffy to be slightly better than the opponent when he's G4 because he'd be drained of haki when he runs out of it. Kata would have killed Luffy if he hadn't gotten lucky and found Brûlee (and so would have Doflamingo and Cracker if he didn't have comrades to bail him out). And even in G4 Luffy only managed to even the odds against Kata. You are right though that CoO was the key difference but their fist battles earlier also proved that Kata hits harder and has better CoA than Luffy not in G4 and able to damage G4 Luffy. Luffy needs to even the battle (have we seen him go G2 on Kata though? should have done so long ago) before he can try to finish him off with G4.

 

G4 isn't just Luffy's "final form", it's his "do or die" technique. Hence why I don't usually count it. Though in retrospect I probably should have since G4 is his finishing move against super strong opponents.



#91 Saya

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 03:17 PM

Why would dogtooth become the first villain to die?
Also why would that make me sad?


There is a first time for everything.

#92 Fulmine

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 11:36 PM


Honestly, I don't even count G4 for these things cuz it's not something Luffy can use whenever he wants (see Luffy's bravado moment with Big Mom at the wedding). It is not enough for Luffy to be slightly better than the opponent when he's G4 because he'd be drained of haki when he runs out of it. Kata would have killed Luffy if he hadn't gotten lucky and found Brûlee (and so would have Doflamingo and Cracker if he didn't have comrades to bail him out). And even in G4 Luffy only managed to even the odds against Kata. You are right though that CoO was the key difference but their fist battles earlier also proved that Kata hits harder and has better CoA than Luffy not in G4 and able to damage G4 Luffy. Luffy needs to even the battle (have we seen him go G2 on Kata though? should have done so long ago) before he can try to finish him off with G4.



G4 isn't just Luffy's "final form", it's his "do or die" technique. Hence why I don't usually count it. Though in retrospect I probably should have since G4 is his finishing move against super strong opponents.

Luffy can use G4 whenever he wants. It's just a matter of tactic and necessariness.

 

And the reason Katakuri could survive long enough for G4 to run out is...CoO. So my point stands, CoO is the reason Katakuri is stronger than Luffy.

 

Goku can't use SS Blue forever either. Frankly the distinction between final form or do-or-die is hardly irrelevant. All of them are tools in battle, some has time limit, some doesn't etc. but the point is an opponent is stronger when you exhaust all options and you still can't win (provided that the circumstance is fair 1vs1). Luffy has an option, a tool, G4, that helps him overpower Katakuri completely and the single reason Katakuri could handle that secret weapon is CoO. Without it, Oda has shown us how Katakuri was pummeled around by G4. Even if it's not a one-shot it would still be a one-sided match. CoO is what saved him.


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#93 Strobacaxi

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 02:55 PM

Katakuri is faster, stronger, and uses his DF better than Luffy. He could follow Luffy´s G4 speed. Besides Katakuri´s armament haki is better than Luffy´s. 

G4 is above Katakuri in both speed and strength. Katakuri can keep up with G4 without CoO, but he is below G4. The question is if he can last however long G4 time Luffy can keep up by now, which I think is much more than 20 mins atm. Because without G4 Luffy is completely outmatched.


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#94 trafalgarlawisop

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 07:31 PM

Dat chapter gave me vintage One Piece feels  :ohyes:






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