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One Piece Chapter 894 Discussion


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#41 Frankenstein

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 02:51 PM

I dont get this. We know for a fact Fuji can distinguish all the rubble(=stones) in DR from everything else! Therefore CoO can read stones if u got the right CoO that is. And if Fuji does what he does in DR with rocks by the use of his CoO, i dont see how what Zoro did in Alabasta is any different!

 

It also fits all of Luffys/Ray-sans description of Haki and how it improves/awakens. Zoro was at deaths door at that moment, with Luffy/Ray-san explaining that dire situations are what leads to ur haki to improve i just follow whats been said.

______________

 

BTW i find it very weird that Katakuri still lets Luffy the time to recuperate.....he aint attacking him whenever he is already lying down most of the times, instead he often waits for Luffy to stand up , even encouraging him to do so.

 

Then again he has stated numerous times in several chapters whether that was all that Luffy was able to. Even in this chapter he asked again.....i mean ok that still signifies huge superiority, but aint that far too risky? Luffy grow rate should ring all his alarm bells....i just dont know anymore.....i mean so far Katakuri still seems vastly superior his better CoA was shown once more this chapter but.....strange..its just strange....i fear some plot armor is coming up again......like .... soemthing real stupid.....like Katakuri cant fight if not given the time to take a pis* every day or so..... pls Oda dont do somehting like plot armor again..... Luffy won far too many fights because of that already.....

 

@Kazekage could be right, Katakuri may simply really enjoy this, thus trying to keep it going.

I think it's because Katakuri wants to break Luffy's spirit. He wants him to admit defeat. I kinda see it as plot armor because that shouldn't really be his concern but it seems to be the case.


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#42 tenchu

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 02:58 PM


I dont get this. We know for a fact Fuji can distinguish all the rubble(=stones) in DR from everything else! Therefore CoO can read stones if u got the right CoO that is. And if Fuji does what he does in DR with rocks by the use of his CoO, i dont see how what Zoro did in Alabasta is any different!



It also fits all of Luffys/Ray-sans description of Haki and how it improves/awakens. Zoro was at deaths door at that moment, with Luffy/Ray-san explaining that dire situations are what leads to ur haki to improve i just follow whats been said.

So zoro heard the breath and cut steel, i thought that applied more to CoA than CoO. CoO doesnt allow you to cut something that you couldnt cut. What zoro did was bullshitty, same as luffy when he beat lucci


Edited by tenchu, 08 February 2018 - 03:07 PM.

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#43 Tale

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 03:09 PM

Good chapter.

 

I'm now hopeful that Sanji and Smoothie won't be entirely useless this arc (and I know Sanji baked a cake, but I don't care about his cake-baking skills). Unless Oda plans to have Pudding mess with her family's memories, we might see Sanji teaming up to clear the island with Germa. The introduction of Snack (which was completely unexpected) makes me even more hopeful about Sanji fighting a big-shot (and a demoted commander who was beaten by a member of the Worst Generation doesn't too much for him). 

 

I can't say Katakuri vs Luffy will be my favorite Luffy fight in this manga. Katakuri is my favorite antagonist (excluding Eneru), but I just can't get over so much of it being off-screened, even if I know what's happening off-screen. It feels a bit jarring and rushed for my tastes. Still a good fight, though. Katakuri's Grilled Mochi seems like Oda just randomly adding fire to people's attacks, but I guess it mirrors Red Hawk and we still don't know how his DF works, so I can buy it.

 

Also, am I dreaming or does it look like Oda may be setting up a Jimbei vs Smoothie fight? Just a little bit? Would be great if we could see Jimbei get a major fight here.

 


Wtf katakuri is trembling...
Oda stop your bs writing!

 

His endurance and durability were always likely to be his weakest areas and he did just inflict a serious injury on himself. There's nothing terrible about that. It's less credible for me that Luffy would be able to fight this long after what we've seen happen to him when he fought Hody and Doflamingo, but then again, he should be stronger now than he was then.


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#44 emirua

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 03:52 PM

I wonder why Perospero was not the 4th sweet commander if his bounty is higher than Snack's..

 

Maybe he was also defeated earlier?


Edited by emirua, 08 February 2018 - 03:59 PM.


#45 capu

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 05:08 PM

So zoro heard the breath and cut steel, i thought that applied more to CoA than CoO. CoO doesnt allow you to cut something that you couldnt cut. What zoro did was bullshitty, same as luffy when he beat lucci

Well that depends, not sure myself, but the reason he was able to cut it might have been that he understood the breath/voice of it through CoO in the first place. Meaning he cut it because he was able to tell what it actually was by reading it and countering the defense by analysing it. We know since kaku that one's defense can change and  that to adequatly jugde what that something is about makes a difference, CoO helps to achieve this. Kaku also said that Zoro  anticipated his move, which could also be future sight thing, thus CoO. I personally would not rule out that Zoro (only if certain conditions are met (i.e. being driven to the edge in Mr.1 case)) can use CoO and could seldomly back then as well, he knew about Vergo as well, thus at least post TS he for certain has it under control at least when in enemy territory. not that their aint instances when his sense of direction still lacks though.



#46 tenchu

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 05:21 PM

Well that depends, not sure myself, but the reason he was able to cut it might have been that he understood the breath/voice of it through CoO in the first place. Meaning he cut it because he was able to tell what it actually was by reading it and countering the defense by analysing it. We know since kaku that one's defense can change and  that to adequatly jugde what that something is about makes a difference, CoO helps to achieve this. Kaku also said that Zoro  anticipated his move, which could also be future sight thing, thus CoO. I personally would not rule out that Zoro (only if certain conditions are met (i.e. being driven to the edge in Mr.1 case)) can use CoO and could seldomly back then as well, he knew about Vergo as well, thus at least post TS he for certain has it under control at least when in enemy territory. not that their aint instances when his sense of direction still lacks though.

giphy.gif

 

you think i wanted to do this?. i didnt, but i had to. Why did you make do this?.


Edited by tenchu, 08 February 2018 - 05:23 PM.

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#47 masterbio

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 05:34 PM

Ok, I don't wanna be "that guy", but...

 

Katakuri has been pounding Luffy, hard, for a good couple of hours. Like real hard, with Luffy barely dodging any attacks and only landing with hit every hour.

Now, I know Luffy's endurance has been stated many times, against Croco, against Lucci, during the Marineford battle. But in neither of those cases did Luffy had to fight for so long, and received damage for so long. So yeah, now it's getting a bit unrealistic.


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#48 Enbima

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 05:41 PM


His endurance and durability were always likely to be his weakest areas and he did just inflict a serious injury on himself. There's nothing terrible about that. It's less credible for me that Luffy would be able to fight this long after what we've seen happen to him when he fought Hody and Doflamingo, but then again, he should be stronger now than he was then
Hes the number 1 man of big mom why is that likely? Whats terrbile is the fact that luffy endures massive clean blows from him for hours. There is not a single fight of luffy in the past that can justify this nonesense. He never got hit so much in the past. And again he already fought with a sweet commander, with an army and some henchman and even Sanji not even 2 days ago. So stop telling me that Katakuri has a weak endurance and that his CLEAN hits are weak. Luffy is screaming while blocking uberCoA hits but nothing happens when takes one. This is BS.
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To be effective In combat, a warrior must not feel for his enemy. Close your heart to their desperation. Close your heart for their suffering. The road ahead is long and unforgiving. No place for a boy. You must be a warrior.

- Goku to Gohan.

 stop dreaming


#49 Strobacaxi

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 06:05 PM

Hes the number 1 man of big mom why is that likely? Whats terrbile is the fact that luffy endures massive clean blows from him for hours. There is not a single fight of luffy in the past that can justify this nonesense. He never got hit so much in the past. And again he already fought with a sweet commander, with an army and some henchman and even Sanji not even 2 days ago. So stop telling me that Katakuri has a weak endurance and that his CLEAN hits are weak. Luffy is screaming while blocking uberCoA hits but nothing happens when takes one. This is BS.

 

True shit. The man has been taking hits for hours since last chapter where he couldn't even stand up. And yet he can still stand up and fight. 

It's absurd, and it's the one thing I dislike in this fight.


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#50 Kolfer

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 07:53 PM

Nice slice of flashback. I liked the filling even if the fight barely progressed, but the cliffhanger is nice. 

 

As for Luffy endurance, I agree that it's displayed a very unrealistic way, but such endurance is to be expected at this point. Remember Aokiji and Akainu fighting for 10 days? So yeah, we've come to the point where growth gets exponential.

First yonkou confrontation is the good timing for that though.


Edited by Kolfer, 08 February 2018 - 07:55 PM.


#51 Lucky Wolf

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 08:56 PM

Hes the number 1 man of big mom why is that likely? Whats terrbile is the fact that luffy endures massive clean blows from him for hours. There is not a single fight of luffy in the past that can justify this nonesense. He never got hit so much in the past. And again he already fought with a sweet commander, with an army and some henchman and even Sanji not even 2 days ago. So stop telling me that Katakuri has a weak endurance and that his CLEAN hits are weak. Luffy is screaming while blocking uberCoA hits but nothing happens when takes one. This is BS.

Have you forgotten the entire marine ford and impel down arc? and you claim he doesn't have the endurance to back up what we are seeing?

 

We've heard of fights for other high level characters lasting for days. Jimbei vs Ace. Akainu vs Aokiji. Thats just how this stuff goes. 


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#52 Insane Soul

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 10:18 PM

By the time they are done with this arc, we won't be able to tell Big Mom apart from Brook.


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#53 Fulmine

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 11:20 PM

So if:

Jinbe vs Smoothie

Sanji vs Snack

And we know Luffy vs Katakuri

Well, Cracker is left for Zolo. Cracker has a named sword so it makes sense

 

I guess we have the order of the Monster Quartet down  :lol: If the bounty=strength logic and the enemy strength => SH strength are true, of course.

 

 

But seriously, if Smoothie absorbs the juice and makes herself bigger? Can there even be a better target for Jinbe's Fishmen Karate which manipulates water?

 

 


Hes the number 1 man of big mom why is that likely?

Like I said, because he has not been taking hits for a very long time. Unless you're super blessed like BM or eat a DF or other magical abilities, how can you even train your endurance if you don't take hits? He focuses on honing his CoO which lets him dodge attack. It's like if you have a DF maybe you would sacrifice time to train your body to master your DF. Of course there are monsters who are well-rounded and good at everything but nothing hints at Katakuri being that kind of guy. He's strong, yes, but strong is different from well-rounded. In fact, he demonstrates decent to sick level in everything else so endurance is the only left stat which he can be weak at.

 

You make a powerscale mistake where you buy the hype too much and just assume if someone is at certain level all of their stats have to as well. LOL no, look at Cracker, a glass canon yet is still a Top Yonkou Commander. As long as his other skills are more than enough to make up for his weakness, it's not a problem.

 

 


Whats terrbile is the fact that luffy endures massive clean blows from him for hours. There is not a single fight of luffy in the past that can justify this nonesense. He never got hit so much in the past. And again he already fought with a sweet commander, with an army and some henchman and even Sanji not even 2 days ago. So stop telling me that Katakuri has a weak endurance and that his CLEAN hits are weak. Luffy is screaming while blocking uberCoA hits but nothing happens when takes one. This is BS.

LOL, Luffy willpowered through Crocodile's poison, something he has never taken before. He got a clean giant finger through his stomach/chest by Lucci and he was fine being stuck between buildings for minutes/hours. He also survived Impel Down Hell and Ivankov's hormone treat that made him scream bloody murder to the point Mr.2 was so scared and Mr.2 is not some softcore person (he's a fucking Baroque officers who most likely has killed and done all sorts of shit before). He also endured through a lot of stuffs in MFWar, from Kizaru's laser to Akainu's missed magma punch (of course with a second hormone shot form Iva). And that's pre-TS. Post-TS he can be much more endurable.

 

Sure he has never fought this long before but that doesn't mean he can't. It just means past opponents either are weak and unable to push him or strong and push him much faster than Katakuri (weak or strong is relative to Luffy's level at the time). Ace and Jinbe fought for 5 days, you know.

 

And like I said, Luffy got a good shower, drank milk, ate and beauty-slept at Bege's place. The Cracker, Sanji and Revenge Army fights are absolutely irrelevant because Luffy already refreshed. It's not like Luffy has been fighting non-stop.

 

Your suspension of disbelief is challenged, I understand but your reasoning is so wrong.

 

 

True shit. The man has been taking hits for hours since last chapter where he couldn't even stand up. And yet he can still stand up and fight. 

It's absurd, and it's the one thing I dislike in this fight.

Couldn't even stand up or lie down and rest a bit? :rolleyes:


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#54 Shin

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 12:39 AM

Not a bad chapter. It seems that Katakuri and Luffy's exchange at the end each saw into the future and knows what the other is going to do? That seemed why their speech dialogue was sort of broken up there I'm guessing. I wonder if Katakuri saw his eventually defeat here. 

 

Katakuri had some nice moments, I liked how he shot off his arm and regrew it (guess that is an awakened ability or part of his special paramecia) and his character seems a lot different from when first saw him. He doesn't care about what others think of him now. It feels like he's put that and this fight above supporting Big Mom too. I mean when I think about it he's really failed at every turn and opportunity presented to him in this arc. He failed to stop the assassination attempt at the wedding, he failed to kill Sanji, he failed to capture or kill any of the SHs despite being on their ship before them, he failed to kill Luffy when he had him beaten numerous times (he just made Luffy stronger with the broken CoO ability now), and is one of the biggest reasons why Big Mom crew is in the situation they are in. 

 

I really wonder if after this arc Big Mom will banish him or something given how badly he preformed and he will be forced to go off on his own. Although given how weak and thin Big Mom is looking maybe Big Mom will get defeated/killed off here and the Big Mom crew will come apart. I can't imagine Big Mom's crew plays any sort of role in the story going forward. Big Mom looks weak enough that maybe Bege could kill her with something planned out, but that is probably unlikely. 

 

Also I like that it seems Sanji is going to go get Luffy ahead of the other crew. Hopefully he will have some nice moments and given that we finally see Snack it does feel like that will be who Sanji fights if he is at the mirror Oven is holding. That could serve as a good test for Sanji, but I could also see them not really getting a proper fight and they all try to run as soon as Sanji gets Luffy. With Smoothie I think that Carrot and Jimbe will probably handle her If Oda wants to have Smoothie do anything here. 



#55 capu

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 01:59 AM


With Smoothie I think that Carrot and Jimbe will probably handle her If Oda wants to have Smoothie do anything here. 

Jinbei and Brook would be the better choice by far. Both cancel Smoothies abilities. And Carrot should not have the endurance and tankyness to fight even the weakest commander. I thing her power gets so freaking overrated. I would not (even in Sulong form) even put her at Franky lvl. All i give her is weak3 lvl. Without Sulong she is the weakest SH we have if u ask me. People overrate her for taking out fodder.....Usoop did that in FI as well...


Edited by capu, 09 February 2018 - 02:00 AM.


#56 Shin

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 02:23 AM

Jinbei and Brook would be the better choice by far. Both cancel Smoothies abilities. And Carrot should not have the endurance and tankyness to fight even the weakest commander. I thing her power gets so freaking overrated. I would not (even in Sulong form) even put her at Franky lvl. All i give her is weak3 lvl. Without Sulong she is the weakest SH we have if u ask me. People overrate her for taking out fodder.....Usoop did that in FI as well...

 

I doubt Carrot is the weakest SH. I like Brook but he isn't on her level. He would be better served against Big Mom given his soul abilities. The whole series has been pitting him against Big Mom so far, but she isn't around now. I don't see what Brook could really do against a character like Smoothie. 

 

Carrot makes sense in how Oda like to pair female fighters against each other and her Sulong form probably allows her to fight a Commander and probably beat a Commander with Jinbe's and or Chopper's help. She is awake now too so you figure Oda will use her here and I'd be surprised if she doesn't fight Smoothie. Since I don't know who is left to fight her directly if Jinbe is busy sailing the ship and Nami guiding Jinbe. So that leaves Carrot, Brook and Chopper and I think Carrot is clearly the most capable of going after Smoothie since she can leave the ship to fight while it is sailing. 


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#57 capu

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 03:08 AM


He would be better served against Big Mom given his soul abilities.

While i normally would agree that would need BM to be there, which  she is not. The entire purpose of Bege going to the next island is to lure BM away from her forces, thus away from the SHs as well.

 


I don't see what Brook could really do against a character like Smoothie. 

He counters her DF and is pretty much immune to it. Just like Jinbei he consequently is an awesome matchup against her. Moreover through his music he could disrupt Smoothies concentration to make her vulnerable to Jinbeis attacks. Much like he did to the fodder in FI island. Moreover i dont get whyBrooks power is so underrated here. He has taken BMs  attacks, without being put out of the picture for days! His endurance and tankyness has significantlyimproved since TS, so has his attack power. Brook has fought the Vice captain of Jack (sheepshead) and took his attacks like a man! He was fast enough to attack Zeus, while BM was standing on her and he is without a doubt one of the SHs to have been most important during this arc. Brook did not only grow physically but also mentally to the point that he aint a liability, even when put against powerhouses.   

 


and her Sulong form probably allows her to fight a Commander

This was not even hinted.....all she did was fighting fodder....thats all we know and the commander aint fodder, much less the 2nd strongest  among them....Sanji will fight the 4rth strongest....mayhaps with backup (although so far most think that Germa will fight the others).

 


Since I don't know who is left to fight her directly if Jinbe is busy sailing the ship and Nami guiding Jinbe.

Well honestly even Chopper+Nami+Brook+Carrot should be pretty much useless vs SMoothie without jinbei interfeering, firstly because they simply cant tank what Smoothie will throw at them in a prolonged battle, and secondly because they dont even have the battle experience in fighting an enemy of that caliber (Nami and Brook do, even if only once), thirdly because they dont get the variety in their skills (with Brook and Nami being the exceptions here). Chopper is a mere brawler/melee fighter, whos tempo is for certain way lower than a commanders and his power output is as well, Carrot (choppers inferiority works here as well) has lighitng on a lvl that we dont really know whether is does anything vs a commander (bypassing her CoA? doubtful), and it is highly doubtful that said lightning attacks match Namis!

Nami aint tanky either, while she is a great ranged supp, which Carrot aint! Carrot would need to fight SMoothie head on, 1 cut of Smoothie Carrot=done, thats what commanders are after all. Brook on the other hand can disrupt her concentration and he is among the fastest of the crew.

 

 


Carrot is clearly the most capable of going after Smoothie since she can leave the ship to fight while it is sailing. 

  so can Brook...

And again i dont see how Carrot can be anything more than the one fighting the underlings, that might have bounties up to 200 mill but not more. We already saw that she can only use Sulong for a few min, u expect Smoothie not to kill her the moment she falls asleep since Sulong takes too much from her?

 

Remember she too is an commander, Cracker fought for 11 hours, Katakuri does for (half?) a day fight Luffy, without being done!, It is beyond me to think that Smoothie would not have a similar endurance up there.


Edited by capu, 09 February 2018 - 03:15 AM.


#58 Madara D Dragon

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 03:38 AM

I doubt Carrot is the weakest SH. I like Brook but he isn't on her level. He would be better served against Big Mom given his soul abilities. The whole series has been pitting him against Big Mom so far, but she isn't around now. I don't see what Brook could really do against a character like Smoothie.

Carrot makes sense in how Oda like to pair female fighters against each other and her Sulong form probably allows her to fight a Commander and probably beat a Commander with Jinbe's and or Chopper's help. She is awake now too so you figure Oda will use her here and I'd be surprised if she doesn't fight Smoothie. Since I don't know who is left to fight her directly if Jinbe is busy sailing the ship and Nami guiding Jinbe. So that leaves Carrot, Brook and Chopper and I think Carrot is clearly the most capable of going after Smoothie since she can leave the ship to fight while it is sailing.


Wait what what whaaat? Where did you get the idea her Sulong form allows her to fight a comander? We've only seen her using it against fodder...

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#59 Sesshoumaru

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 04:01 AM

I just read the last two chapters. I must say I am heavely disappointed in Katakuri not killing Flambe.

It really looks like Oda is planning some bonding between Luffy and Katakuri. It was nice that Katakuri stabbed himself to make it fair. Best Big Mom pirate for me thus far.

 

To the current chapter: As there is still a good hour left, the battle seems to be far from over.

However, it looks like Luffy has finally reached a similar CoO level than Katakuri. In G4 he should be able to fight on par with him now.

A new G4 form. Mb Luffy gets really long?? Silly.

 

Btw did Rayleigh imply that he is not on that CoO level?



#60 Enbima

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 04:41 AM

Have you forgotten the entire marine ford and impel down arc? and you claim he doesn't have the endurance to back up what we are seeing?

he doesn't. Luffy was dead without ivankov.

To be effective In combat, a warrior must not feel for his enemy. Close your heart to their desperation. Close your heart for their suffering. The road ahead is long and unforgiving. No place for a boy. You must be a warrior.

- Goku to Gohan.

 stop dreaming





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