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Boruto Chapter 23 Discussion


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#41 Tokoya

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 05:46 PM

My only complaint/rant

I know these are peaceful times but... He seriously drew little birds :rly: ... Had one job - all he had to do was draw a bird, fly and drop bombs - and what's up with the baby lion aaarrhhh :banghead:

The fights are short and quick... as Gara's son put it... no one is serious and the competition is weak... hope the next phase is more intense and has longer fights... miss the 3 episode fights in Naruto

I thoroughly enjoyed watching all the shit talking in that episode and especially from Shinki :lolxg:

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Nothing will stand in our way.....I will finish what you started....I will fulfill our destiny!

#Kylo Ren #ForceAwakens


#42 trafalgarlawisop

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 07:54 PM

Itachi being good show the complexities of the naruto universe. There were no real bad or good guys beside Oro.

 

1.Naruto and sakura was suppose to learn how konaha have a dark side. Sai is the anti sasuke. He is willing to do anything for the village where sasuke left the village the first chance he got.

 

2.Why? who in the hell was the third to sasuke?

 

3.HAHAHA. Sakura caring. This person. http://2.bp.blogspot...00/0451-002.png

 

Making your story more complex doesn't necessarily make it better. The issues is that Sasuke had no role except being an annoying and unbearable whiner who punches people left and right like Russell Crowe flip flopping non stop from good to bad to the point it was stupid Or Kishimoto should have kept that revelation near the end of the series so that we don't have to endure hundreds of chapters of Sasuke's soap opera.

 

1. The dark side gave me the wrong kind of nightmares...

 

danzo_s_sharingan_arm_by_xx_miky_uchirun

 

2. The mentor of Jiraya  who will influence our main character but he is also the sensei of Orochimaru and Tsunade that would have profound influence on Sasuke, and Sakura for the better or the worse. He is also the one who asked Iruka to treat and understand Naruto at the start of the series. Giving him more moments with the main characters would have been more fitting to end part 1 with his death.  Itachi reported to him about the potential rebellion of his clan (tried to negotiate peacefully) and one of the few who knew the truth about him. He was also the one who protected Sasuke from Danzo.

 

3. You and I don't have the same definition of "caring"...

 

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#43 waleuska

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 02:12 AM

Making your story more complex doesn't necessarily make it better. The issues is that Sasuke had no role except being an annoying and unbearable whiner who punches people left and right like Russell Crowe flip flopping non stop from good to bad to the point it was stupid Or Kishimoto should have kept that revelation near the end of the series so that we don't have to endure hundreds of chapters of Sasuke's soap opera.

 

1. The dark side gave me the wrong kind of nightmares...

 

 

 

2. The mentor of Jiraya  who will influence our main character but he is also the sensei of Orochimaru and Tsunade that would have profound influence on Sasuke, and Sakura for the better or the worse. He is also the one who asked Iruka to treat and understand Naruto at the start of the series. Giving him more moments with the main characters would have been more fitting to end part 1 with his death.  Itachi reported to him about the potential rebellion of his clan (tried to negotiate peacefully) and one of the few who knew the truth about him. He was also the one who protected Sasuke from Danzo.

 

3. You and I don't have the same definition of "caring"...

 

 

Kishi did it from the start, and the reason why naruto sucks so much is that he simplify it.

 

2.Jiraya had nothing to do with sasuke and sakura.

 

3. Yes, please explain to me how sakura was caring for naruto.

 

Now ignoring crazy.

 

Boruto personally still do not make sense to me.


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#44 Graeystone

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 11:28 AM

 

3. Yes, please explain to me how sakura was caring for naruto.

 

Now ignoring crazy.

 

Boruto personally still do not make sense to me.

The problem with Sakura is that for every Up she had, Koishi/Editors/Publisher had to slam her back into the ground.

Protects team against overwhelming force in Forest of Death = Double KO against Ino.

Helps fight and defeats Sasori = Getting herself and Yamato injured at Orochimaru's lair.

Fought bravely during Pain's Invasion = Listens to Sai concerning love followed by a BS confession to Naruto then nearly gets killed by Sasuke in a failed attempt at killing him.

 

I agree with you about Boruto. Its like Naruto's but without any real justification for the bad actions. Naruto acted the way he did because the Villagers flat out hated him. . .Boruto did what he did because 'Daddy works late'. And then there was Boruto getting caught 'cheating' at the Chunin Exams. Not only did he dishonor himself but also Hinata and Himewari in the process. Naruto may have been a loud mouthed jackass at that age but he NEVER EVER pulled a stunt like that. Heck, he was smart enough to know the one time he could cheat, he knew he couldn't get away with it with Ikibi standing just a few feet in front of him.

 

If it hadn't been for the Okotsuki(sp?) attack, Boruto would have been 'fired' and someone else would be the main character.


Edited by Graeystone, 19 May 2018 - 11:41 AM.

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#45 trafalgarlawisop

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 11:53 AM

Kishi did it from the start, and the reason why naruto sucks so much is that he simplify it.

 

2.Jiraya had nothing to do with sasuke and sakura.

 

3. Yes, please explain to me how sakura was caring for naruto.

 

Now ignoring crazy.

 

Boruto personally still do not make sense to me.

 

What I am saying is that with Shonen genres for teenagers its usually better to have a specific line on who is good or evil. The issue is that you have Konoha (the good), Akatsuki (the antagonists), and the kinda good or bad with Sasuke and Orochimaru (giving information on Tobi's organization while antagonizing Naruto). It becomes a mess. Its very similar to the way Kylo Ren was written in TLJ where the writer only seems to care about trying to surprise for the sake of surprise to the point it becomes an incoherent mess. edit: When Sasuke keeps flopping from good to bad non stop.

 

Now that I think about it, Black panther does that concept of having two opposing ideals really well while making it  fun, and understandable. Killmonger is very similar to Sasuke because  his family was betrayed, cast out, and father killed by Wakanda to the point that he is willing to sacrifice his own GF to attain his goal. The difference is that the writer keeps his role simple, coherent, and surprisingly complex without turning him into a confusing whining emo called Sasuke. He ends up influencing Tchalla by the end of the film who is able to recognize the rights and the wrongs of his people.

 

2. I was talking about the third Hokage... Did you drink last night ? Oh yeah it was friday.

 

3. The time she actually was willing to give up her food (she could have refused if she hated him that much) was a huge feat for Kakshi. The moment where she was willing to give up for the sake of Naruto's dream during the written exam. The moment she saved him in the forest of death. The time where she was really concerned that Akatsuki might capture him. The moment where she says that she wish she could do more for him, the time she healed his and scolded him not to overdo it and was willing to feed him after the Kakuzu fight. Btw, she also saved Hinata which evidently you will ignore. The time she saved him by cpr and not to give up on his dreams...

 

Spoiler

 

 

@Graeystone

 

I do agree that Sakura is a character that also needs some serious rewrite from any decent screenwriter because its also a gigantic mess. Her character went completely downhill after the Pain arc as well... 


Edited by trafalgarlawisop, 19 May 2018 - 12:35 PM.


#46 waleuska

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 03:09 PM

1.What I am saying is that with Shonen genres for teenagers its usually better to have a specific line on who is good or evil. The issue is that you have Konoha (the good), Akatsuki (the antagonists), and the kinda good or bad with Sasuke and Orochimaru (giving information on Tobi's organization while antagonizing Naruto). It becomes a mess. Its very similar to the way Kylo Ren was written in TLJ where the writer only seems to care about trying to surprise for the sake of surprise to the point it becomes an incoherent mess. edit: When Sasuke keeps flopping from good to bad non stop.

 

Now that I think about it, Black panther does that concept of having two opposing ideals really well while making it  fun, and understandable. Killmonger is very similar to Sasuke because  his family was betrayed, cast out, and father killed by Wakanda to the point that he is willing to sacrifice his own GF to attain his goal. The difference is that the writer keeps his role simple, coherent, and surprisingly complex without turning him into a confusing whining emo called Sasuke. He ends up influencing Tchalla by the end of the film who is able to recognize the rights and the wrongs of his people.

 

2. I was talking about the third Hokage... Did you drink last night ? Oh yeah it was friday.

 

3. The time she actually was willing to give up her food (she could have refused if she hated him that much) was a huge feat for Kakshi. The moment where she was willing to give up for the sake of Naruto's dream during the written exam. The moment she saved him in the forest of death. The time where she was really concerned that Akatsuki might capture him. The moment where she says that she wish she could do more for him, the time she healed his and scolded him not to overdo it and was willing to feed him after the Kakuzu fight. Btw, she also saved Hinata which evidently you will ignore. The time she saved him by cpr and not to give up on his dreams...

1.No it does. Having good and evil set in stone is lazy and boring. That type of writing is lazy and easy and doesn't help the story at all. Why do you think the big three are the big three? They all went future than DBZ on the idea of good and evil. The problem is that kishi made a complex plot super simple.

 

Hey konaha did evil crap, whelp lets ignore all of that and make them the absolute good guys. In this instance it made Sasuke a person who have real beef with konaha a whiny child. Kishi did this making the plot simple.

 

Just like the ending war. Instead of the good guys vs zombies it should have been the smaller villages vs the bigger ones. To show the world isn't so black and white and that everyone have a reason to fight.

 

2. so what is your point? The third didn't help sasuke. What does sasuke owe the Third?

 

3.Oh you mean after sasuke offer his food first. Sasuke was there as well. She didn't believe naruto could pass the test.

 

here are a list of things where sakura shows she doesn't understand naruto or care about him.

 

1.She thinks naruto is stupid for whinny about not having a family and thinks not having one is better.

2.Before the fight before neji, ino have to tell sakura that naruto is fighting and stop worrying about sasuke.

3.the confession

4.The roof fight where sakura interfere.

5.The time she got stab by marada and wants naruto and sasuke to attack him while she have him pin down.


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#47 trafalgarlawisop

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 12:47 AM

1.No it does. Having good and evil set in stone is lazy and boring. That type of writing is lazy and easy and doesn't help the story at all. Why do you think the big three are the big three? They all went future than DBZ on the idea of good and evil. The problem is that kishi made a complex plot super simple.

 

Hey konaha did evil crap, whelp lets ignore all of that and make them the absolute good guys. In this instance it made Sasuke a person who have real beef with konaha a whiny child. Kishi did this making the plot simple.

 

Just like the ending war. Instead of the good guys vs zombies it should have been the smaller villages vs the bigger ones. To show the world isn't so black and white and that everyone have a reason to fight.

 

2. so what is your point? The third didn't help sasuke. What does sasuke owe the Third?

 

3.Oh you mean after sasuke offer his food first. Sasuke was there as well. She didn't believe naruto could pass the test.

 

here are a list of things where sakura shows she doesn't understand naruto or care about him.

 

1.She thinks naruto is stupid for whinny about not having a family and thinks not having one is better.

2.Before the fight before neji, ino have to tell sakura that naruto is fighting and stop worrying about sasuke.

3.the confession

4.The roof fight where sakura interfere.

5.The time she got stab by marada and wants naruto and sasuke to attack him while she have him pin down.

 

1. It doesn't necessarily mean that the film or series are gonna be bad. Man of Steel is a dark film but its a dark piece of shit. The original  Star Wars trilogy started simple and got more complex with the father and son conflict without turning stupid, and forced like Naruto. Its the other way around because Naruto as a series tries too hard to be interesting, and deep that it becomes confusing, pseudo intellectual, and dumb.

 

Black Panther handles similar themes but its exponentially better written, and executed. Konoha did wrong things but you could have had chapters tackles directly the politics of casting out clans like the Hyugas with Naruto breaking that curse which he evidently forgot ... That's what Tchalla does by understanding the plight of his cousin and intentions by willing to help his fellow men around the world and going to Oakland to meet a kid that looks a like Killmonger (looks like his son) effectively breaking the cycle. I am not saying that making your story complex is bad its just that Naruto did it horribly unlike Star Wars or Black Panther that both tell a story about a son surpassing his father and the previous generation.

 

Yeah the zombie battle was so stupid cause Kishimoto was running out of villains. Since Pain was the product of Konoha's mistakes they could have tackled that subject within the same arc. It should have been Konoha vs Akatsuki for the finale and Amagakure was a waste of good setting for a final battle.

 

2. If I recall correctly the third protected Sasuke from Danzo who wanted to completely eradicate the clan which is kind of a big deal. He knew about Itachi and the dark side of Konoha  and there could have been some great scenes between them them that would lead up to his death to close part 1.

 

3. She could have up and refused if she hated Naruto that much and only cared about herself which they were falsely encouraged to. Kakashi told them a misleading rule not to care for Naruto. Kakashi made her pass because she was also willing to care and break the rules for him.

 

1. That's what Kushina thought about Minato  as well and yet Sakura doesn't get a pass... That's the point A of her character and it was obvious that she was gonna change for the better which is called an arc... until the post Pain arcs ruin everything.

 

2. Which she did and listen...unlike you. She was genuinely happy when he won. Character development still in progress.

 

3. If I recall she made that fake confession because she did not want Naruto to continue to pursue Sasuke because he was suffering and getting beat up for her sake too. She cared more for Naruto than Sasuke at that moment with that fake confession. Stop taking things out of context and twisting the truth like tabloids, and newspaper to suit your agenda.

 

4. She tried to stop both of them from killing each other which is what a normal friend would do when he or she sees two people close to her having an argument that could turn worse. You would have preferred that she orgasm about her crush's hand with the the corpse of her cousin standing right in front of her...

 

5. Its been too long I don't remember that part and I am not sure I want to especially that godawful arc that should be aborted. Moved on to better things like Avengers 3 and kdramas where things like competent writing, and fun stories still exist. I will forever remember naruto as a standard of how not to write and its wonderful, mature, tolerant, and understanding fans.

 

The irony is that you want complex stories but you see Sakura as a one dimensional bitch like she was the devil herself with no redeeming qualities (I admit she could have been written better) where she can't do anything right for you. Believe me I have met a lot of women that started like Sakura but not all of them ended like her and that's how real life is. If you think women like Hinata  should be the standard by standing in the corner then you are fooling yourself or you haven't met actual great women.


Edited by trafalgarlawisop, 20 May 2018 - 11:36 AM.


#48 waleuska

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 12:19 PM

 

The irony is that you want complex stories but you see Sakura as a one dimensional bitch like she was the devil herself with no redeeming qualities (I admit she could have been written better) where she can't do anything right for you. Believe me I have met a lot of women that started like Sakura but not all of them ended like her and that's how real life is. If you think women like Hinata  should be the standard by standing in the corner then you are fooling yourself or you haven't met actual great women.

LoL.

 

Name one fight were sakura and naruto works together flawlessly. Beside the random bell test after the time skip. Can you name one time where naruto and sakura were on the same page on any issue beside sasuke.

 

Also stop acting like sakura was a good person. She was an awful friend. Look at how she broke up her friendship with ino over sasuke. Hell at least hinata was conflict over the kiba and naruto match on who to root for.

 

Read black clover that is more of your style


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#49 trafalgarlawisop

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 08:13 PM

LoL.

 

Name one fight were sakura and naruto works together flawlessly. Beside the random bell test after the time skip. Can you name one time where naruto and sakura were on the same page on any issue beside sasuke.

 

Also stop acting like sakura was a good person. She was an awful friend. Look at how she broke up her friendship with ino over sasuke. Hell at least hinata was conflict over the kiba and naruto match on who to root for.

 

Read black clover that is more of your style

 

There was that time where they trapped the rat ninjas and she was clearly aware of that play. 

 

Spoiler
 

 

Or that time where the trio worked together to change the momentum of the battle while the two guys attack while she is playing defense by keeping the allies alive and kicking. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

and that time to to save the world... In color !

 

Spoiler

 

Its not against your rules.

If you were actually smart you would have said " Name one fight where only Sakura and Naruto worked together flawlessly. Beside the random bell test TS, and teaming up with Sasuke against Madara, and Kaguya".   

 

 

 To be fair, I do admit that Sakura should have been given more to do as well as the rookies and that Kishi was terribly biased towards Sasuke and Naruto in terms of screen time which I think is something we can all agree on,  and its ultimately a waste of potential. 

 

 

Any issue where they agree other than Sasuke ? How about Chakkra ?

 

Spoiler

 

She did reconcile with Ino like normal friends and relatives would do. Are you gonna say that we should judge severely minor girls arguing over a crush as adults where no one got killed,  beat up, or injured  ? That's harsh...

 

Are you saying that sakura is unable to feel conflicted (guilt, remorse) like here ?

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

You know what its ok. Relax and enjoy your day man ! 

 

 Oh yeah Almost forgot...

 

Spoiler


#50 waleuska

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 09:19 PM

There was that time where they trapped the rat ninjas and she was clearly aware of that play. 

 

 

 

Or that time where the trio worked together to change the momentum of the battle while the two guys attack while she is playing defense by keeping the allies alive and kicking. 

 

 

 

and that time to to save the world... In color !

 

 

Its not against your rules.

If you were actually smart you would have said " Name one fight where only Sakura and Naruto worked together flawlessly. Beside the random bell test TS, and teaming up with Sasuke against Madara, and Kaguya".   

 

 

 To be fair, I do admit that Sakura should have been given more to do as well as the rookies and that Kishi was terribly biased towards Sasuke and Naruto in terms of screen time which I think is something we can all agree on,  and its ultimately a waste of potential. 

 

 

Any issue where they agree other than Sasuke ? How about Chakkra ?

 

 

She did reconcile with Ino like normal friends and relatives would do. Are you gonna say that we should judge severely minor girls arguing over a crush as adults where no one got killed,  beat up, or injured  ? That's harsh...

 

Are you saying that sakura is unable to feel conflicted (guilt, remorse) like here ?

 

 

 

You know what its ok. Relax and enjoy your day man ! 

 

 Oh yeah Almost forgot...

 

LOL i said where she and naruto work together.

 

Like go back and watch naruto and sasuke team work. Tell me when it is only sakura and naruto doing that.

 

Heck you are defending a character that kishi didn't even want to write.

 

What is sakura's back story beside the one with her forehead? Who are her parents? What is her goals beside bring back sasuke? Why is she a ninja? Why do she even like sasuke? come back to me when sakura is a complete character.


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#51 trafalgarlawisop

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 10:54 PM

LOL i said where she and naruto work together 

 

Like go back and watch naruto and sasuke team work. Tell me when it is only sakura and naruto doing that.

 

Heck you are defending a character that kishi didn't even want to write.

 

What is sakura's back story beside the one with her forehead? Who are her parents? What is her goals beside bring back sasuke? Why is she a ninja? Why do she even like sasuke? come back to me when sakura is a complete character.

 

 

 

It doesn't explicitly forbid any other characters in your original sentence if you knew how to make an actual argument  because you were not specific enough in your already (dirty and biased) rules.  You would make a terrible lawmaker. 

 

Ok so you are changing the rules and twisting them until they fit your agenda. Its like you are a senator asking me to read specific lines out of context of a report on the Iron Man suit which is quite manipulative I must say. You are intentionally asking me to take out  actual accomplishments of said character just to have the last word that we should all hate her no matter what like you. I did said multiple times that Kishi could have done more with her character  if he was not such a bad writer.  I am wrong you would make a great politician.

 

First you stated that Sakura was a terrible person  which you are not trying to counter argue anymore because I showed factual proofs that it was not the case. Now you are twisting it to she is not a complete character... How did we even get that part ?

 

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#52 waleuska

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 11:18 PM

It doesn't explicitly forbid any other characters in your original sentence if you knew how to make an actual argument  because you were not specific enough in your already (dirty and biased) rules.  You would make a terrible lawmaker. 

 

Ok so you are changing the rules and twisting them until they fit your agenda. Its like you are a senator asking me to read specific lines out of context of a report on the Iron Man suit which is quite manipulative I must say. You are intentionally asking me to take out  actual accomplishments of said character just to have the last word that we should all hate her no matter what like you. I did said multiple times that Kishi could have done more with her character  if he was not such a bad writer.  I am wrong you would make a great politician.

 

First you stated that Sakura was a terrible person  which you are not trying to counter argue anymore because I showed factual proofs that it was not the case. Now you are twisting it to she is not a complete character... How did we even get that part ?

 

https://memecrunch.com/meme/FP3J/stay-on...

I made the same rules you are the one who didn't read them correctly.

 

LoL.

 

Name one fight were sakura and naruto works together flawlessly. Beside the random bell test after the time skip. Can you name one time where naruto and sakura were on the same page on any issue beside sasuke.

 

Also stop acting like sakura was a good person. She was an awful friend. Look at how she broke up her friendship with ino over sasuke. Hell at least hinata was conflict over the kiba and naruto match on who to root for.

 

Read black clover that is more of your style

Summing random things isn't working together. Or let me be clearer.

 

Name a time where naruto and sakura work together without anyone else help. Like how naruto and sasuke freed kakashi from the water prison.


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#53 trafalgarlawisop

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Posted Yesterday, 02:07 AM

I made the same rules you are the one who didn't read them correctly.

 

Summing random things isn't working together. Or let me be clearer.

 

Name a time where naruto and sakura work together without anyone else help. Like how naruto and sasuke freed kakashi from the water prison.

 

 

Ok at that time... when Shikamaru was about to die 

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Honestly, I really loved Naruto. It was an inspirational tale of underdogs proving their worth. Not only I wanted Naruto to succeed... I wanted Lee to prove that he could be Neji's equal and get a GF like Tenten. I wanted Tenten to actually become a character. I wanted Neji to find peace and not to die like his dad and be the leader of his clan thus surpassing his curse. I wanted Hinata to become stronger, and reclaiming her title as heiress and ending up with Naruto was secondary. The irony is that a parody manga was able to fulfill all the things that made me love this story in the first place.

 

Have a good week man.



#54 Graeystone

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Posted Yesterday, 05:53 PM

1.No it does. Having good and evil set in stone is lazy and boring. That type of writing is lazy and easy and doesn't help the story at all. Why do you think the big three are the big three? They all went future than DBZ on the idea of good and evil. The problem is that kishi made a complex plot super simple.

 

Actually what is lazy is not describing why Person A is Absolutely Good and why Person B is Absolutely Evil. Even then that is still not the laziest thing to happen to story. The laziest thing is not including the idea of 'Actions Have Consequences'. Take Orochimaru and everything he did. None of it was 'Good' by anyone's standards yet at the end of it all he is somehow a Protagonist of some kind. . .


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#55 waleuska

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Posted Yesterday, 06:02 PM

Actually what is lazy is not describing why Person A is Absolutely Good and why Person B is Absolutely Evil. Even then that is still not the laziest thing to happen to story. The laziest thing is not including the idea of 'Actions Have Consequences'. Take Orochimaru and everything he did. None of it was 'Good' by anyone's standards yet at the end of it all he is somehow a Protagonist of some kind. . .

I think that is fine. Orochimaru knows where all of the bodies are hidden and is powerful enough we no one could keep him lock up 24/7.


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